Merkel clearly calling for an EU Army

petra

Greta said a post had been removed
GabriellaG54, it seems one of your posts has been removed Rightly so.

have I fallen down the rabbit hole again?

To be honest, I’m not sure what is driving the German determination to be at the forefront of a European Army. It will more than likely soak up more of their GDP than their current NATO membership, and it is at the forefront of the NATO command structure. This year it will be in command of the Very High Readiness Joint Task Force, the spearhead of NATO. Germans have commanded the Allied HQ in the Netherlands for all but about four years of its existence (they let us have a go one year!). France can claim no such military accolades. So what’s it all about?

POGS "Did you note in the comment from NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said this :-

" We have to remember that after Brexit 80% of NATO’s defence expenditure will come from non-EU NATO"

Yes, did you note my response to it?

Anyone else sick and fed up of people posting comments about posts they haven't read properly? Also those who decide they know what you think based on absolutely nothing? I'd start a thread about it but would be accused of posting a thread about a thread. Not because it would be about a particular thread but other posters would refer to other threads and it would get deleted by HQ!

Nonnie

POGS "Did you note in the comment from NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said this :-

" We have to remember that after Brexit 80% of NATO’s defence expenditure will come from non-EU NATO"

Yes did you note my response to it?"
----

Yes Nonnie I did :-

"POGS NATO can say what it likes but as people keep telling us the EU is a law unto itself!

Trump has complained about paying too much into NATO so that could change the balance completely."
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I responded to your posts saying along the lines I thought Trump was in order to raise the USA paying too much and brought in other countries .

I think you are saying that if Trump took the USA out of NATO or paid in less then the comment from NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is of no consequence as the balance will have shifted ?

I agree with your view but I do not believe the USA will leave NATO , in fact The U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation Tuesday barring the USA from withdrawing from NATO and as for the finance it is quite fair for Trump to raise the point that there is an agreement by NATO Members to pay in 2% of their GDP and countries such as Germany are not doing so.

To post as you did:-

" Anyone else sick and fed up of people posting comments about posts they haven't read properly? Also those who decide they know what you think based on absolutely nothing? "

I will not respond other than to say I will leave it up to other posters to agree or disagree with your evaluation of my posts, can't do much else really.



Anyone else sick and fed up of people posting comments about posts they haven't read properly? Also those who decide they know what you think based on absolutely nothing?

POGS don't take it personally, there is a lot of it about, accusations, deliberate misunderstandings, pure lies etc. Your not appearing to notice what I said is nothing compared to some properly nasty posts. Honestly, just started me thinking about some of the posts in the last week or so.

I agree with Pogs; I don’t believe for a minute that the USA will pull out of NATO. As I said upthread, Trump is sabre rattling and good sense will prevail (even if it isn’t his!). Although other US presidents have expressed concern about the disparities in NATO contributions from some countries, they have never threatened to pull out. They value their role, in conjunction with all the other countries who are reluctant to pull the rug out from under the alliance.

jalima
No, your ok
I think it was wishful thinking on someone's part

Oh!
I thought I'd followed Alice

Nonnie

" POGS don't take it personally, there is a lot of it about, accusations, deliberate misunderstandings, pure lies etc."

Yes there are!

Gabriella G54, I apologize. I got the threads mixed up. I still find your post on 'BREXIT: Planning for No Deal' on 22 Jan at 21.29 flippant. You obviously think concerns about Brexit are amusing. Many people are worried since their livelihoods will be affected. Also, the last sentence in the above post: ”Best to sit back and enjoy the mayhem while TM cuts all ties with...” It looks to me as the two emojis at the end of the sentence represent a bretzel and a frog? Do you seriously think that is respectful?

Jonathan Lis in the Guardian

Brexiters’ scaremongering about a European army is just another of their lies

Merkel and Macron’s Aachen treaty applies only to Germany and France, which remain both EU members and sovereign nation states. It is their prerogative to pool military capability if they wish. Likewise, in accordance with the Lisbon treaty, the EU decides all defence policies unanimously. If there ever were plans for a bona fide EU army, any member state could veto it.

But the larger point here is that the EU army of such lurid British nightmares cannot and will not emerge. There will never be any situation in which Brussels rules over a series of battalions and member states are compelled to deploy their armed forces against their consent. The main reason for that is the EU’s national governments hate the idea and always have.

The EU commission head, Jean-Claude Juncker, has also proposed an EU defence union in the next decade. Much like Pesco, advocates intend for it to boost individual countries’ capacities, pool resources and erase the need for member-state rivalry or duplication. Juncker has insisted that it would not impinge upon Nato. Nato’s secretary general, for his part, has welcomed the EU’s defence programmes, provided they do not seek to compete with his organisation. Juncker will leave office this year and have no power over the future of EU defence either way.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/brexiters-european-army-myths-franco-german

This is interesting, too:

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-defence/brexit-turmoil-delays-deal-on-britains-eu-defence-ties-idUKKCN1NO1N4

Maizie d

" Brexiters’ scaremongering about a European army is just another of their lies "
--

That sums up the mentality behind the article in my opinion.

Carry on believing Junker, Macron, Hollande , Merkel and the voices I have heard for myself coming from the EU Parliament over time that have used the term ' EU Army '.

Are they all Brexiteers and liars as that is the implication according to Lis and the Guardian

I think that their ambitions may be well out of reach.

And don't forget that reporters don't write their headlines...

They may be out of reach for now, but it won’t stop them trying.