Fraudulent referendum

Just catching up with latest posts and am puzzled.
To me, it's crystal clear that jura posted about a brexiteer who phoned up with his idiotic banana comment. How can it be read any other way?

Indeed mcem.

On the one hand people complain about 'petty rules' from the EU (still waiting for a list btw) .. and on the other hand say 'ah well, we will just have to do without- it will be good for us- like during the war' ...

and bananas are a great exemple- which leads itself to jokes and spoofs.

As for the merge between Ireland and NI- I have to say, from a distance- that would be great and solve many problems.

But would they belong to the EU, or to the UK ???????
Gets a bit more complicated no?

And it just won't and can't happen. Too soon, too much hurt on both sides, too much anger that the Friday agreement has barely brushed aside, but not solved. My sil comes from NI and lived through the troubles - and it is clear that it just can't happen.

It might- in 3 perhaps 4 generations- but NOT now. Really, NOT now.

I just cannot think of any sound reason that Ulster Irish are better off as part of a UK especially now that Ireland is not any longer under the heel of the Roman church, and also especially now that the UK is in this fearsome mess about Brexit.

The Ulster Unionists who prefer to remain British are mostly people who view the Republicans as inferior persons. If I were an Ulsterwoman I'd not want to be associated with any religious not cases.

That is the way it is.

Am I right in thinking that the majority of jobs in NI are in the public sector? I think it was an Ulsterman who told me that. What would happen to all those jobs if we gave NI away?

If we gave NI away
What on earth does that mean? Who's "we" and who has the right to give away any part of the UK? And to whom would it be given?

Some are suggesting that NI and Eire become one. I think that would only happen if we gave it away

Still wondering who is the "we" that can give away NI.
Seriously and without being rude, do you know anything about Irish history?

Oh my god,"GIVE IT AWAY" you do know that the arrogance of Westminster thinking it owns the other countries in the union is a huge part of the problem.Nobody owns NI ,it was filched as part of a deal ...nobody owns Scotland the people are sovereign .If and when either decides to WALK away from the UK its their choice ...no one else's

Scary stuff

Prejudice built on lies and misinformation is like a disease that is easily spread. However, if crimes are committed and subjected to law, then upheld. Is justice served if those committing the crime benefit from their actions?

Jura2, it’s very simple, NI would accede to Eire by leaving the Union under international law. As such a now United Ireland would automatically be a member of the EU.

paddy that's why I bit my tongue and asked 2 genuine questions. I honestly don't believe that nonnie does understand the history of Ireland and the implications of her "suggestion".
Maybe she needs a genuine explanation or the opportunity to do a bit of research.

Martha I don't think your very simplistic explanation helps at all I'm afraid.
You totally ignore all that is significant in Irish history and don't give any background of context.

Background or context

MarthaBeck - simple you say?!? wow- you really have no idea.

And who would decide - would 'we' (whomever we is - I guess England!?!) 'give them up/throw them out' - or would they decide for themselves.

Today, a highly respected National Bus Leader said

“A disruptive no deal Brexit is the biggest threat businesses have faced since 1939, many are threatened with extinction" according to Ian Wright, CEO of the Food and Drink Federation. "I don't think people are taking this seriously"

Surely we cannot allow our prejudices to ignore such warnings?

N.I was NOT filched Paddyann. If you bothered to aquaint yourself with the history of Home Rule, you would realise that Ulster is and was made up of a majority of Protestant/ Scottish migrants dating back to James 1st in the early 17th cent. The decendants of these immigrants resisted Home Rule threatening to take up arms in order NOT to be incorporated into independent catholic Eire, insisting on remaining under the British Crown, creating enormous problems which have persisted to the present day. Not filched, more like wished onto Westminster who would in 1922 have been thankful to see the back of Ulster, but unfortunately politically it just couldn't happen.

Whether agreeing or disagreeing, the last few posts have clearly shown that the Irish question is far from simple!

^ If you bothered to aquaint yourself with the history of Home Rule, you would realise that Ulster is and was made up of a majority of Protestant/ Scottish migrants dating back to James 1st in the early 17th cent.^

Quite honestly, Jabberwok, I'd call that filching. Like we filched north America, Australia and New Zealand from the original inhabitants.

And the English had laid claim to, and settled, part of Ireland long before the Jacobean settlements.

It's all very complex and still bound up with religion. Which is why the Good Friday Agreement is so very significant.

Your argument is spurious mazieD. No present government can be held responsible for what happened 500 years ago, The majority of people of NI have made it crystal clear that hell would freeze over before they agree to merge with the south, Brexit notwithstanding. Unfortunately!

I'm not altogether sure what your 'argument' was, Jabberwok. Paddyann said, perfectly correctly, that NI was filched from the Irish. I was agreeing with her. The 'Irish' Irish have as much right to determine their future as do the descendants of the Anglo-Irish protestants.

I've said before that it's very complex and the current problem is that the Good Friday Agreement has worked, on the whole, extremely well for the whole of Ireland. It's worked extremely well because it is very fudgy. The minute one starts to dig into details one comes unstuck. It is unbelievable that it should be so carelessly threatened in the cause of not splitting the tory party.

I do know my Irish history My ancestors were Irish and I had first hand accounts of the days of the Black and Tans etc and the engineered starvation of the Irish during the famine when my Great Grandparents came to Scotland ,they went back in the 1880's when life was a bit ...but not a lot better .

We can go back to the past - but we are NOW - and there is NO way NI will leave the UK and merge with Ireland- at this point in time.

Perhaps in 3, 4 , 5 generations, but NOT NOW for sure.