Fraudulent referendum

I would not want to be in a room with Vladimir Putin, Steve Bannon, Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, Gerard Batten, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, Thomas Mair, Christopher Chope, Kate Hoey, Boris Johnson, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Melanie Phillips, David Davis, Sarah Vine, Peter Bone, Andrea Leadsum, Dennis Skinner , Liam Fox, Paul Dacre or Jacob Rees-Mogg.

I would rather be in a room with these good people.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPAgNTz3Sow&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2HNEuKzC_93k79kWNNvTk_NWmguoGJVteYzzPidFLXj5BsziWNflwiAlw

Oh yes- for sure. The venom was there for all to see at Friday's march - fascists black shirts and swatikas, screaming, frothing, spouting venom not seen for a long time- not even 1930s Germany.

screaming, frothing, spouting venom

A bit like GN on a Brexit thread.

hmm NO, NOTHING like it - at all. Fascists black shirts and signs with swastikas - people dragging effigies of Mrs May hanging by the neck, and so much more- never ever seen on GN.

As usual jura you failed to spot that I only highlighted screaming, frothing, spouting venom, I made no reference to fascists, black shirts (?) or swatistikas.

And will you please stop shouting!

They were the ones doing the screaming, frothing and spouting venom- and lapping up the sheer and disgusting racism of the so called Tony Robinson. And yes, it did make me shout in disgust.

No one, that I have seen thus far, is saying that behaviour of the militants on that March was acceptable jura; in fact I think you'll find that their conduct was roundly condemned by all sides.

My comment was purely and simply in reference to the overstated hyperbole that is often posted on many of the brexit/independence threads by some posters who; in their anxiety about the topic in discussion, sometimes post in a way that, one would hope, they don't speak to people face to face.

In your haste to reply to what you saw as a criticism of your post, you failed to read mine properly.

I do admire the stoicism of those who have been abused since 2016 yet still continue to live here despite contemplating leaving for their country of birth.
It shows that we in the UK still have much to offer.

Imagine the noise in a room with the oppo. Gawd...
More venom than a box jellyfish.

Getting back to fraud and the Referendum - could you try and explain why Johnson and Farage suddenly dropped their appeal against the fine? And why they are now 'complaining' that they can't prove their innocence because THEY DESTROYED the evidence? Please.

No idea jura, can't stomach either of them.

With each new lie, Brexiteers seek to re-affirm that Brexiteers are not responsible for the gargantuan mess they have created. Many of these go unchallenged by either opposition politicians or much of the broadcast media. This makes it easier for them to stick.

These lies, whether told before or after the referendum, have another objective. As Churchill may have put it, they are the bodyguard of a deeper truth: that of the real purpose of Brexit.

In his book Heroic Failure, an excoriating analysis of the causes of Brexit, Fintan O’Toole identifies another book called The Sovereign Individual by William Rees-Mogg, the father of Jacob, as being particularly illuminating. In it, says O’Toole, Rees-Mogg senior espouses “an avowedly apocalyptic mess of Ayn Rand-ish prognostications, addressed quite explicitly to the super-rich”. Rees-Mogg senior wanted the ultra-rich to operate outside political boundaries, free “from all the constraints of nationality, citizenship and, of course, taxation”. This will starve nation states of tax revenue, leading to first their collapse and then to that of mass democracy itself.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/brexit-lies-and-rich-folk/

Do you have a link to William Rees-Mogg's pronouncements on that, varian, please?
Were these possibly just musings on a hypothetical situation and its consequences? He was a journalist so perhaps provocative statements were his way of encouraging readers to think of the various consequences of certain policies and actions.

Books by William Rees-Mogg

Blood in the Streets: Investment Profits in a World Gone Mad (1987, with James Dale Davidson) ISBN 9780446353168[41]

The Great Reckoning : How the World Will Change Before the Year 2000 (1992, with James Dale Davidson) ISBN 9780330327923[42][43][44]

The Sovereign Individual: The Coming Economic Revolution: how to Survive and Prosper in it (1997, with James Dale Davidson) ISBN 9780333662083[25][26]

Thanks varian

I can't see me ploughing through them! but may find a synopsis!

The UK’s statistics watchdog delivered a public rebuke to the Vote Leave campaign for continuing to claim that EU membership costs the UK £350m a week. Sir Andrew Dilnot, chair of the UK Statistics Authority, said he was disappointed that the lead Brexit campaign was continuing to make this claim and that it was “misleading and undermines trust in official statistics”.

The politician most closely identified with the lie on the bus is Boris Johnson, who is now being touted as the next leader of the Tory Party, and possible Prime Minister. Aparently he is the favourite of the party members who will decide between the two front runners selected by the MPs

In The Economist's 2018 end-of-the-year awards for the worst in British politics, Johnson received the highest award (the "politician who has done most to let down his party and country").

The Economist described Johnson as one of the architects of the Brexit "catastrophe", -"In a big field, there was one outstanding candidate. He failed miserably as foreign secretary. He sniped at Mrs May while in Cabinet. He has agitated against her deal from the backbenches and in his lucrative newspaper column without presenting a real alternative. A demagogue not a statesman, he is the most irresponsible politician the country has seen for many years."

An excellent documentary by Channel 4 with John Snow- about Bank's rôle and funding during the campaign. From minute 11- the way he asked the funding and campaigning to massively be increased to profit from Jo Cox's murder. Vile in the extreme.

As said at the end of the documentary- this is not 'just' about Leave or Remain- but about the very essence of democracy- if we allow massively rich people to play, and in such a underhand way' with votes and referendums- not just here, but all over the world.

One thing not mentionned in the documentary- is the French TV documentary last year, showing the whole of Bank's 'insurance' office staff, including the manager who was also one of the Leave campaign manager - working on the campaign, phoning targetted individuals to ask for money or encourage them to vote leave. The cost must have been very substantial, and never taken into account either.

Also from Channel 4. Krishnan Guru-Murthy challenges John Redwood's "facts". (They sound like "alternative facts"). We need more interviewers who are prepared to do this. It never happens on the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1114231615838916614

? ... ?

Bore off now.
If TM (a Remainer) and more than half the Cabinet who also voted Remain are accepting of the result of the referendum then (a) why should us Leavers in the lower echelons of society take a bashing and (b) why do Remain voters turn into attack dogs at the perceived Gates of Democracy over this topic still?

Banging on about hasn’t changed diddly squat because the powers that be (ie. not us) are not acknowledging it happened.

No election or referendum is squeaky clean!

This from the Graun 3. Months ago:

“Theresa May’s spokeswoman said that to date the government had “not seen successful interference in UK democratic processes”.

She added: “We of course remain vigilant and we will continue to work to strengthen our democracy against potential interference.” “

Enough now!

'No election or referendum is squeaky clean!'

the is squeaky clean- and massively fraudulent - the campaign by Leave and Ukip has been shown to be the second- very worryingly so- and a lot has not come out yet.

The Electoral Commission has made it clear, the evidence so far would make any vote or referendum NIL and VOID. But they cannot act as the Referendum was, by our own Laws, advisory and not binding. What ridiculous and extremely worrying situation for the very essence of democracy.

Try reading the Torygraph

"Russian trolls sent thousands of pro-Leave messages on day of Brexit referendum, Twitter data reveals"

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

Ah, we shall just have to agree to disagree ladies.
?
As always - it depends on which ‘experts’ you side with & my choices are are not yours.
Que sera sera!

You can agree to disagree about opinions Urmstongran- but facts, are just that, facts. There is no 'agreeing or disagreeing' about facts. Multiple and massive fraud is not a question of opinion either- and nothing to do with 'experts'- but with facts.

Deceitful MP's who signed article 50 en masse , who also went to their electorate at the GE on the promise of delivering Brexit. Their constituents believed them, more fool them! they won't make that mistake again, none of us will!!. Those MP's who don't seem to be able to differentiate between the word " deliver" and "destroy", which of course truthfully, is what they really meant! An ex attorney general !! The man is a complete disgrace, as they all are!