Are those condeming the Labour Party confusing Anti Zionism with Anti Semetism

PECS

" If people are not open to reflection or in considering another point of view..or even just acknowledging it might be a possibility .. these threads just bat back and forth!"
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Amen to that.

However a point of view is simply that. Factual evidence is another thing altogether and there is a determined few who refuse to consider the factual evidence.

Thanks for posting that part of Thornberry’s speech POGS surely there is nothing to disagree with there at all by anybody !

Pogs, agreed, totally.

And equally enemies of JC do not use his support for Palestine to imply he is anti -semetic.

Umm.. my family's recent history is factual evidence of what Zionist policies do.

I wish people would read what I actually post about anti Semitism. I am not a denier that it exists in LP or anywhere else. But I do believe that some unfounded accusations and exaggerations have been made & / or manipulated to discredit JC. In politics dirty things happen. JCs support for Palestine was a gift to those political enemies from outside and within LP who want him out. I do not think he is a good leader but I do not believe he is a racist of any kind. Despite Annies repeated rants!

Others post, I rant ?

I agree with what Emily Thornberry said.

Will the elections in Israel ( in April) bring any hope that things may change for the better and the hardliners may be outnumbered by those who want to work towards a peaceful settlement?

anniebach A poster pointed out that you never answered my question of a few days ago as to what you yourself would describe as "anti semitic".

Belatedly, you have now responded: "racism is racism".

It is obviously much easier to throw one or two line insults and allegations at other people than to actually make sensible comments. I really don't think calling everyone who disagrees with you "Corbynites United" - particularly when some of those people have expressed their disapproval of Corbyn - is a rational response.

I'm not a jewess but do have jewish ancestry. I condemn much of what Israel does, but am still of the opinion that too many in the LP membership are inherently anti-Semitic, who cloak their prejudice in anti-zionist clothing. I really don't think Corbyn could back the jewish perspective no matter what, and that is sad. I really can't vote labour while he is the leader which leaves me with so many others floundering as to where to cast our votes.

janipat, your post echoes what my Jewish friends say. They’re all Labour voters and have been through generations but now feel disenfranchised. So do many other Labour voters -

Chris Williamson in the news this morning , a recording of him at a Momentum meeting was released by the Yorkshire Post,

I learned yesterday he has booked a room in Parliament to show the latest Jackie Walker film, his guests are JVL.

Jackie Walker is suspended by the Party because of anti semetic statements.

She was the deputy of Momentum who was secretly film at a Momentum training day, answering the question

What is anti semetism,

Can I say this without it sounding " tit for tat" ?
I have voted Labour all my voting life because of all their other good policies & despite their foreign policy history of not challenging Israel as it decimated Palestine.

There is no place for anti - semitism. It must be flushed out of any political party, including Labour, & also Islamaphobia and sexism and other forms of discrimination & hate crimes. I do not see one as worse than another. They are all despicable.

Never come across or heard of Islamaphobia in the Labour Party.

Great post PECS, exactly how I feel.
Agreed, and anecdotal- Annie- but Islamophobia is rife in many people who vote Tory or are Tory members (and whom I know personally) - and also in the Tory read Press.

And I also know many who are pro Israel and will deny that what is happening in Gaza is an abomination and totally inhumane.

Coming back with ‘islamophobia is rife in the Tory party’
Seems an excuse for anti semetism in the Labour Party

Absolutely NOT - as said in PECS's post - they are both WRONG, and should be both eradicated from all parties, be it on left, right, centre - and other institutions.

Perhaps a thread on islamophobia in the Tory party ?

Annie you are very disingenuous. You have never acknowledged any of the reasoned and reasonable comments made by pro Palestinian posts. You cannot accept that the dehumanisation of Palestinians is a bad thing. You just repeat your anti Semitic examples. There are always 2 sides to a situation.
I have said all the time that I do not approve / want/ support anti- Semitism. That does not exclude me supporting the Palestinian cause.
It feels like you want Palestine ofc the map.

There are not two sides to racism for me . I am not responsible for what you feel or think.

And it is Corbyn’s friends Jewdas who want Israel destroyed , read their prayer .

janipat cloak their prejudice in anti-Zionist clothing is a good summing up. It makes forca convenient smokescreen, sadly.

Would some people's inherent prejudice be exposed for what it is if ever the situation was resolved?

janipat same for me with the exception of Jewish ancestry

Are there specific examples of labour party members expressing anti semetism, I just cannot understand if they do then why? I personally cannot see anything within mainstram judaism that would cause a oroblem,
The fanatics who wont sit next to women on planes is a different issue as are those who promote the growth of Israel at the expense of other populations.

I do not hold anyone else responsible for what I feel or think, Annie Though you sometimes try hard to attribute words and thoughts to other people by either ignoring what they actually say or by apparent deliberate misinterpretation!

I am not ashamed to support my father's homeland and heritage against the might of Zionist policies espoused by the Israeli government.

I am able to consider that
a) there are racists in all political parties including those who are specifically anti-Semitic.

b) those people anti JC have used his support of Palestine to inflate & use a situation and to make it personal

These two statements are not mutually exclusive!

It is easy to make the accusation that all those of us who support Palestine are "cloaking their prejudice in anti-Zionist clothing". My friends, Jewish and otherwise, know that is not true for me at all.

It is also easier for those who do no want to face Israel's dreadful actions towards Palestinians to be cloaking their prejudice in pro-Zionist clothing and comforting themselves that it proves they are not anti-Semitic.

Who has said that they are pro-Zionist?