Scottish Independence

Oh, and meant to say Nicola (Sturgeon) if there was another Scottish independence vote and it was to leave the UK, I presume that there would be a further referendum a few years down the line, to see if we had changed our minds again or not!!

Well said Chucky! I agree with you 100%

I have to agree about democracy Chucky if we ignore the results(s) why bother in the future?

No one is ignoring the Result of Indy Ref 1 - Scotland is still a partner in the UK is it not? Indy Ref 2 will be called because there has been a material change in circumstances in that if the UK Brexits from the EU, Scotland will be out of the EU too. Yet voters in Scotland, having voted to stay in the UK, in many cases because leaving the UK would also mean being out of Europe, now find that because the majority of voters in England voted to leave the EU (whereas 62% of voters in Scotland voted to Remain) that Scotland will be out against the expressed will of Scottish voters. Now where lies the democracy? Was the Indy ref undemocratic? Was the Brexit ref undemocratic? or is our particular form of Democracy seriously flawed?

No one is ignoring the Result of Indy Ref 1 - Scotland is still a partner in the UK is it not?
Precisely,and therefore must democratically accept the result of the UK referendum!

Meant to say Framilode or jura2 if that scenario came about perhaps we could look at a property swap, if you wanted to live in Scotland?
It would break my heart to leave Scotland but, if this did happen, I would consider moving!

Chucky, I agree with everything you have said, and it's time that wee Nicola attended to the job she's paid to do.Ask the nurses, the teachers,the police,the carers,the patients,, the road users etc how happy they are!

Chucky have you got a nice lodge in the Trossachs perhaps?

Just popped back to read more posts. Thank you, this is very interesting. Arguments both sides have merit, as would be expected. Granny23 you have taken such time to explain how you feel which is great. It is a topic I find of interest since I joined GN as the discussion would pop up now & again.

jangran you meanthe nurses who got 9% pay rise, and the reintroduction of brseries,the police who got a similar rise and the teachers who just accepted 13 % over two years ? Far better off under the SNP than anyone else in the UK "WEE" Nicola is a very capable well respected leader of the SNP WORLDWIDE ,I hear from friends in Cnada and the USA and even from Spain they wished they had someone who was on the peoples side the way she is instead of the folk at the top of their government .I truly do not understand ANY Scot who tinks it OK for our country to be run...and run badly by our neighbour .

Is Ms Sturgeon popular?

I think MPs representing Scotland are very well represented in Westminster. 59- 650.
As the population of Scotland is, according to the last census in 2011, 5.3m and England 53m the numbers are a clear indication that the ratios are fair.

Gillybob I'm quite shocked by your "SNP thugs" we have marched in tens of thousands over the past few years and there has to my certain knowledge NEVER been trouble in any of the marches,might be loud ,lots of singing but NEVER trouble except from the folk who turn up to wave their Union flags and taunt us and indeed its usually them who end up in court ...especially the ones who burned our flag an dassualted young teenage girls the day after the referendum ...and that was AFTER they had won!! Police Scotland figures will prove that the people who march even the largest marches of 90 thousand or more have had no trouble and are good spirited .The myth that we are thugs needs to be addressed.In my friend group we have doctors and lawyers and teachers and nurses people who are life long ...50 years and longer...supporters on Indy and brand new English born supporters of Indy .Its not all "thugs" by any means .Labelling us as such does you no favour whatsoever

I didn't vote for independence and did vote to remain in the EU.
So I was relieved not to be in thrall to the nationalists but wish there had been no referendum over Europe.
I wanted reform but certainly don't want to exchange our relationship with our EU neighbours for some dodgy trading with US and China.
Why did I not want an independent Scotland?
I believe we should be supporting eachother, not selfishly saying OUR oil, fish, water etc.
We are stronger and better together.

and I totally agree Grammaretto - which is why I voted remain- and would have voted against Independence for Scotland last time if I had the chance.

But I can totally see NOW, how Scotland would be happier together as part of Europe- than floating adrift with Leave UK- and why many would NOW vote for Independence, who would never have before.

Nicola Sturgeon is a one-trick pony and is not as popular as her adherents would have you believe.I hear from friends in Canada, France and USA who sympathise with us in having a leader whose go-to position is to whinge and girn that it's all the fault of Westminster. And I also think our representatives in that place are an embarrassment.
Nicola is a very capable well respected leader of the SNP
If you say so paddyann ,and there's the rub.. Would that she was leader of the country!

So we have a paradox. On the one hand, never has Scottish independence seemed so reasonable and desirable, and not just to the Scottish nationalist. On the other hand, never in the modern era has it seemed less viable; as well as declining oil revenues there is the problem of the hard/soft border with its neighbour and biggest market, England, should Scotland rejoin the EU after the UK leaves.

I have great admiration for Nicola Sturgeon. She speaks well, addresses questions directly and is well respected in Scotland.

Of course if your friends sympathise that’s nice as I certainly sympathise with the problems face by Macron and Trudeau, or I would if they weren’t of them own making and as for that Moron in the White House.......! ???

Nicola Sturgeon & the SNP want to turn the Central Belt into their own little fiefdom, a copycat Westminster. They don't care about anything or anyone outside Glasgow and Edinburgh. I live in the NE of Scotland and we in this area are treated appallingly by Holyrood. We receive the lowest funding for schools and the lowest grant to councils. The SNP constantly try to remove the services we do have, and have already taken away police and fire service control from us.

Hospital performances are now dire and school achievements have gone down the pan. They cannot recruit staff and so vacancies go unfilled. The latest wheeze is to give councils powers to introduce a workplace parking tax. That'll really encourage teachers and nurses to work in Scotland, while Sturgeon swans off to work in her chauffeur driven car.

I used to think Scotland was a great place to raise a family. I don't any more. Two of my adult children have gone off to London and the US to further their careers while my trainee medic child plans to move to England or abroad as soon as she can. None of them want to be a big fish in a small pond - rather like Alec Salmond, who as everyone knows preferred Westminster to Holyrood.

Do you think Mrs May and ERG care much about anyone who lives in Scotland outside of Glasgow and Edinburgh - or indeed about G and E?

I'm not sure any politicians care about anyone except themselves. That's why I am so disillusioned with politics nowadays.

I can absolutely assure you paddyann that on that particular Saturday in Perth they were thugs of the worst kind . I felt VERY intimidated and frightened . I posted about it on this very forum after the event !

I did not say they were “all thugs” so please don’t put words in my mouth . I said they were thugs on that day in Perth !

But how could we have taken it seriously ‘before’ MaizieD when it was never pointed out to us at the time?

Lots of pre-referendum warnings about the Irish border on this thread.

twitter.com/BorderWarnings/status/1099013638189400064

I suppose the problem was that there was so much guff being spouted that it got lost in the general babble. Particularly as most of the MSM supported Brexit and weren't going to publish anything detrimental. And, of course, 'who needs experts?'

gillybob I can completely identify with your experience. I really don't think the SNP fans realise how they appear to others.

Scotland has 32 councils
Only 4 councils voted for independence.

Dundee city.
For 57.35% Against 42.65%

Glasgow For 53.49%
Against 46.51%

North Lanarkshire
For 51.07% Against 48.93%

West Dunbartonshire
For 53.96% Against 46.04%