Scottish Independence

Gosh and even those were very close.

Thanks for the info Cherrytree I was surprised by it.

Paddyann “I truly do not understand ANY Scot who tinks it OK for our country to be run...and run badly by our neighbour.”
Okay, seeing you can’t understand it, let me explain things to you; everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I am a Scot and like the majority of the Scottish people (unlike the minority in your case) I do NOT want Scottish Independence! Obviously, people like yourself, decide that we are wrong and a disgrace to Scotland because we do not support your view, but we have had the referendum and resoundingly voted to remain part of the United Kingdom. There does not need to be another referendum, the Scottish people have already spoken and made their views clear!

Unfortunately for you the SNP is losing its support.
The facts are there for all to see.
In the 2017 election -
The SNP won 35 seats giving them 59.3% of the seats in Scotland despite only having 36.9% of the vote!!!
The Tories won only 13 seats, which was 22% of the seats available, despite having 28.6% of the vote
Labour won only 7 seats, a paltry 11.8 % of seats available, despite having 27.1% of the vote!
Basically the SNP had just over a third of the vote, which is significantly down (nearly a third) from the 2015 election, where they had reached their peak, before this slide. They lost 21 seats from the 2015 election and won 4 of their constituencies by less than 100 votes.
The vote share for them was down 13.1, whilst the vote share for the Conservatives was up 13.9 and Labours vote share was up 2.8.
The number of votes cast for the 3 main parties in 2017 against the 2015 election were -
SNP - 977,569 down 476,867 from 2015
Conservatives - 757,949 up 323,852 from 2015
Labour - 717,007 up 9,860.
This was despite the Conservative Manifesto being the worst in living memory! I suspect that this change in the vote was mainly due to the majority of Scottish people voting this way to show their opinion on independence! They do not want it and they do not want another referendum. These figures do not show a party in the ascendency, rather one which has had its peak and whose support is rapidly declining.

Anja You must be viewing Nicola Sturgeon through rose tinted glasses! As far as I, and many others are concerned, she is a self absorbed person, who is very full of her own importance! She is so fixated on Scottish Independence and Brexit, that she is failing to look after the needs of the Scottish people! I really do not know where you get your information that she is widely respected, she certainly isn’t over a majority of Scotland. There are huge numbers of people in Scotland who loath her and what she stands for! The best politician in Scotland is Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader, who should perhaps run for the Westminster Parliament as she would make an excellent Prime Minister. However, having a small baby, born late last year, she probably has enough on her plate at the moment.

In response to Chucky (whose figures are 2 years old i.e. BB (Before Brexit) Try this from Today's National:

"THE SNP’s depute leader has labelled this the week when Scottish independence became inevitable. Keith Brown said the momentum had become unstoppable after the “unstable, undemocratic” Westminster’s handling of Brexit over the past few days. He argued that the UK political establishment’s failure to deal with the chaos made it clear why Scotland should make its own decisions.

It comes after several major poll boosts for the Yes movement over the past week. Research by Survation found that 60% of Scots want a second independence referendum. It also predicted that the Scottish Parliament would retain its pro-independence majority after the next Holyrood election.

Brown said: “This week may come to be seen as the moment that ensured momentum for Scottish independence became unstoppable.

“The events of the last few days have proved beyond question that Westminster isn’t working for Scotland – the complete meltdown over Brexit has shown that clearer than ever. “The UK Parliament is an unstable, undemocratic institution foisting an unwanted Brexit on Scotland.

Now more people would prefer independence over any kind of Brexit.

“Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU and our interests have been ignored at every turn.The SNP’s depute leader has labelled this the week when Scottish independence became inevitable.

Keith Brown said the momentum had become unstoppable after the “unstable, undemocratic” Westminster’s handling of Brexit over the past few days.

He argued that the UK political establishment’s failure to deal with the chaos made it clear why Scotland should make its own decisions.

“The UK Parliament is an unstable, undemocratic institution foisting an unwanted Brexit on Scotland. “No wonder that polls now show more people would prefer independence over any kind of Brexit.

“Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU and our interests have been ignored at every turn.

* Gilly * I was at that march and many other s in our cities and I can assure you we ..and Independence is cross party ..are NOT THUGS .If you find people peacefully marching singing as they go a threat then you must be very easily threatened .As I said amongst my friends who march alongside me are doctors ,lawyers ,teachers and nurses,fireand police personnel and every other occupation there is .Many of us have good businesses ,great careers and one that I see on marches is using threatening behaviour OR language .It is easy to find police figures that will tell you our marches are well policed by ourselves and there is NEVER trouble except for the unionists who come to taunt and verbally abuse us.ONE arrest with NO charge of a marcher in Edinburgh ..he was harrassed by a yoon and retaliated ...which he shouldn't have but he was only doing what anyone would have under the circumstances.There were tens of thousands at that march ...ONE arrest

NO ONE I SEE ON MARCHES IS USING THREATENING BEHAVIOUR OR LANGUAGE .

Gilly these are your words,

I remember visiting Perth (on the worst possible Saturday) and watching some small boats come up the river Tay when about 30 or more buses pulled up and hundreds of SNP “thugs” surrounded us . Unbeknownst to us there was a demo /march planned . We tried to escape to the city centre where it was 10 times worse. It was one of the most frightening days of my life.

Paddyann while you write posts in capital letters, you are displaying the very aggression you deny exists amongst the SNP.

If shouting at people online is your argument, it's a pretty poor one.

NO ONE I SEE ON MARCHES IS USING THREATENING BEHAVIOUR OR LANGUAGE

She said, in block capital letters; otherwise known as shouting!

Thank you Paddyann you have now confirmed what I feared, you were there. That day it was horrible to be English in Scotland . I felt frightened , intimidated and very unwelcome (something I have never, ever felt in Scotland ... a place that me and my DH visit regularly and love dearly ) if that day is your idea of peaceful protest/ campaigning then maybe I am a feeble, easily intimidated person. Or maybe you wear those rose tinted glasses .... I don’t know. Please don’t SHOUT though I’ve had a long day .

It started as a lovely day with the boats coming up the river ......families watching and cheering ..... , my DH and I were there tracing his ancestors and places he remembered visiting as a child (as we often do when we are in Scotland) and then.... well........ goodnight x

Granny23 with great respect, the figures are from June 2017. They are the current facts and figures as there has not been another General Election since then! That election was after the UK had voted to leave the EU! The turnaround on the SNP showed that the Scottish people still wanted to be part of the UK and was a vote for that as much as anything else! Polls are very often wrong (last general election, vote on EU as examples) however the figures I quoted are just that, fact! I am sure you agree?
You say recent “Polls” say 60% of Scots want another referendum. They didn’t ask me!! Please do not quote Polls as they are subject to a very small proportion of the electorate and really aren’t worth the paper they are written on, as has recently been shown! I am entitled to a vote and would certainly vote Remain again. I also voted to Remain in the EU, however it is far more important to me to stay in the United Kingdom, rather than the EU and many I have spoken too agree with this!
If there were another Independence Referendum I would be very surprised if the result was not even more overwhelming to remain part of the UK.
What sickens me in the row over independence is that the SNP do not want Scotland to be independent!! It wants Scotland to be ”dependent” on the EU. Why on earth does anyone wish to split from our nearest neighbour, who is the biggest importer of Scottish goods and with whom we have stood side by side with over many years, but then be dependent on countries like Latvia, Bulgaria, France, Germany and the rest of the EU countries, who’s languages we do not speak and who really do not give a damn about us, except to see what they can get out of us.
The EU may not want Scotland back anyway! If they do, it would be because they thought we could help shore up the other EU countries! Then we would have to do what they tell us to do!
Surely Scottish Independence, should be just that, a country who is independent from all others?

Personally I think Scotland should become independent and I would dearly love to be able to vote and be rid of them, living in the leafy English Midlands does not enable me to do that. Scots vote on matters that affect me and I want a vote on their future.

Scotland has a similar population to Norway and similar natural resources there is no reason why they should not prosper on their own. There are a couple of hitches to be overcome Norway has a very high cost of living, taxation regime and is not an EU member which may be an obstacle for them.

Gaun yersel' Chucky! Thanks for all the facts and figures. We are indeed much better together.

Gilly I believe you! ?
A similar incident happened to my English daughter in law and now sadly she has no wish to go back to Scotland's.
As a Scot I am deeply saddened this.

And so far I have always strongly agreed- and yet- together means partnership and respect- and this has just not happened during and after the campaign- and is likely to shift opinions in a big way.

As Nicola says today - a handful of DUP are ruling the waves- whilst Scotland is being totally ignored

www.facebook.com/SnpKintyre/videos/310126909705905/

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

We personally in middle England would love to be rid of you Scots and your never ending whining!

You speak for yourself, Jabberwock.

I'm not sure what constitutes a 'middle Englander' but I'm glad that I'm not one if that's how unpleasantly xenophobic you have to be to qualify.

I'm sure you don't say that to your 'lifelong friends' in Scotland. though...

Och Jabberwok. We're definitely not all rabid independence seekers up here. Check out Chucky's stats. It's the noisy SNP fans that put everyone off. Stay with us. Come to Scotland as often as you want.

Unfortunate or unpleasant choice of words, Jane- sadly.

Why so jura? If you're referring to Jane10's phrase "^rabid independence seekers^; why would that be an "unfortunate or unpleasant choice of words"?

OED definition "^having or proceeding from an extreme or fanatical support of or belief in something.^"

Its not extreme to believe in your own people running your own country...for goodness sake its what most of the world do. Now I dont want to appear rude but many of you on here have no idea of what the facts are .OIL is NOT running out ,there are Trilllions of pounds worth still to be brought to the surface ,One field announced just last week estimates 4 million barrels and thats just one field .Westminster are still selling licenses for oil ,who do you think would buy them if theres none there?
As for my use of capitals well ....I have always emphasised by using capital when writing and I just carry on with it online.I'm not SHOUTING ..and quite frankly why adult women think capital letters are offensive is beyond me !.Davidh why not vote for English independence ?It appears you believe the myth that we take more than we give.Why on earth would WM want to hold onto us if that was the case? They have 92% of the returns on oil ..from our waters and we get 8% .According to a Tory MP on tv this wee Scotland is worth 200 BILLION to the UK economy and him being cautious as he didn't want to tell the whole truth.The problem with some "scots" on here they still believe the crap that comes out of westminster ,even now when the lies and corruption is evident forall to see .

It’s because jura2 earlier thought she and Jane10 were in agreement and being politer to one another.
?

I’ve been reading up on Google paddyann and I have to agree with your fiscal consensus. From the limited amount I’ve gleaned Scotland could be a very rich country! The price of oil dipped significantly at one stage and so Scottish independence seemed to be a pipe dream (no pun intended) especially as the Scottish government are billions of pounds in the red. But now more oil fields have been found and the price of a barrel of oil has risen, it seems a possibility again.