Scottish Independence

.I'm not SHOUTING ..and quite frankly why adult women think capital letters are offensive is beyond me
I have been using the internet, first at work, for very many years and using capital letters is known to be SHOUTING, sorry, paddyann - and that is a known part of internet etiquette.

Typing in all capital letters is internet code for shouting, and it is rude.

I am really not bothered, however any country that wants independence should take on financial independence, that is pensions, unemployment etc etc. As a lot of Scotland is very daresay populated I. Would be interested to see how the would do this, cannot understand why they would want to, far better to all to get along, but if that's what they want so be it, paying their own way and debts and manage their finance, plus keep out of Westminster.

As Nicola says today - a handful of DUP are ruling the waves- whilst Scotland is being totally ignored
That argument is a non-sequitur - Scotland has 59 MPs who sit in Westminster - they are representing the people of Scotland in the H of P.
If Sturgeon is not happy with their representation, why did she not stand as an MP?
She is given proportionately more airtime than the leader of the Welsh Assembly - how many can name him (or her)? and more airtime than eg the London Mayor who is in charge of an area with a higher population than the whole of Scotland.

We've seen her helicopter, we know she earns more than the PM and there is one other thing about Sturgeon - the whole of the UK hears her loud and clear.

Exactly so Jalima!

Given the move away from fossil fuels and towards renewables, Paddyann why do you think extracting even more oil from the N Sea is a good thing?

As for the use of screeds of capital letters on the internet, it's well understood by most people that it's impolite because it represents shouting. It's like someone insisting on using an outdated term that is no longer acceptable in polite society because it's what they've always said. Even my 91yo mother understands that.

Given the move away from fossil fuels and towards renewables, Paddyann why do you think extracting even more oil from the N Sea is a good thing?
I was going to mention that too SueDonim but you have put it so much better.
We're not producing much coal now and its use is frowned on - how long before we are all driving electric cars?
Or scientists invent a new, pure non-polluting type of fuel?

Jalima the Scottish Govt has vowed to phase out petrol & diesel vehicles by 2032 so why would they keep pumping oil?

We live rurally, though, and have oil Central heating so I hope that's not banned as well!

Granny23
A lot of repetition in your comment.

jura2.
“As Nicola says today - a handful of DUP are ruling the waves- whilst Scotland is being totally ignored”

Well Nicola should know all about a handful of mps ruling the waves! After all aren’t the handful of “Green MPs” bolstering up her minority government in Hollywood??

“The Scottish government's budget has passed a key Holyrood vote after the SNP struck a deal with the Greens”.

Suppose it’s alright when it’s needed for her to push things through??

Damn predictive text
Holyrood not Hollywood!
Mind you she’s such a good actor perhaps she should be in Hollywood!

Chucky


I only know ex-pat Scots living in England and Wales and they all seem to loathe her with a passion.

I sometimes think that Sturgeon would be horrified if voters actually wanted independence.It must be nice to have money coming in, and always have Westminster to blame for whatever goes wrong.
A lot of SNP voters have been watching too much Highlander.

I have to say that as a Scot I am terrified at the thought of independance . What figures I have seen we would all be worse off for many years to come . If it came about and we asked to join the EU we would have to agree to using the euro so much for the Scottish currency the SNP would like .

Very interesting point Floradora

Wee Nicola worries about the lack of seasonal workers from the EU. She would have more worries over the drain of Scottish talent should her independence dream ever come true.
I love my grandchildren dearly and would miss them terribly but for their futures I’d encourage them to leave

Thankyou Chucky, SuDonim and others for putting it all so much better than I could. Paddyann’s shouty posts just leave me speechless.
Thankyou also to Jalima and others for pointing out the etiquette of posting.
I’m sorry Gilly for your experience in Dundee - please don’t give up on Scotland, remember it’s the minority who feel, and behave, this way.

If it came about and we asked to join the EU we would have to agree to using the euro so much for the Scottish currency the SNP would like

This is just not true. EU lawyers have confirmed that if there is an on-going move towards Scottish Independence when/if Brexit is finalised then Scotland will not leave the EU but continue to be 'associate members' until an Independent Scotland is established , when it will become a full member with a seat at the top table. The Euro issue is a red herring. There is a requirement that new members should commit to joining the Euro but they cannot join until many conditions are met. Several current EU members have consistently failed to fulfill these conditions, year after year, but have continued to be full members of the EU without censure or penalties.

We know that Westminster wants to hang on to Scotland because of its wealth of natural resources e.g. surplus water, hydro, wind and wave power, more oil reserves (and reserves of coal which could be safely used in carbon capture power stations and the best fishing grounds. Not to mention lots of unused land, ripe for development. These resources would also be make Scotland a valuable member of the EU. Scotland's membership of the EU would be on an equal basis with all other member Countries, with a power of veto, a seat at the top table and a turn at leadership, unlike the position within the UK, where no MP representing a Scottish Constituency can ever be the PM under EVEL legislation and the only seat Scotland has at the top table ie. the Cabinet, is occupied by the bog useless David Mundell, Secretary of State for Scotland, who was only elevated to this position in 2015 because he was the one and only Tory MP elected in Scotland.

Totally agree with you there Granny23, that David Mundell got that position because he was the only Tory MP elected in Scotland in 2015.
Luckily he now has another 12 colleagues to support him in Westminster after th 2017 election. Remarkable rise in numbers!

An interesting thread.

Surely though G23 there is no top table in the EU? I thought all states are considered equal? If not, in order to get a top table place, does this mean Scotland would be expected to be a net contributor as the UK is now? Does the EU want you for your looks or your oil?

An independent Scotland would join a queue of would-be EU members, a senior European official has said.

Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, said if Scotland became independent and wanted to join the EU it would be added to the list of candidate countries including Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Speaking at a Scottish Parliamentary Journalists' Association event in Edinburgh, she said: “Were Scotland to become independent, they would join that list.”

She added though that it might be easier for Scotland to meet membership criteria such as democracy, rule of law, anti-corruption and protection of minorities than other candidates.

Read more

Nicola Sturgeon gives Theresa May deadline for Brexit compromise
Ms Minor also poured cold water on Scotland's ability to secure a special deal in Brexit negotiations.

The Scottish government argues the country, which had a majority of remain voters in the EU referendum unlike the UK, should be in line for a differentiated deal after the UK Government's move for special deals for the car industry.

Ms Minor said: “The negotiations will be with the United Kingdom and that means essentially the Westminster Government.
If we are still in the EU and Scotland became independant this would change I guess .

NfKD there is a top table in the EU and it is increasingly becoming a table a deux or tisch fur zwei, take your pick
(Cannot do les accents on here)

It was a table for three until quite recently.

Very much a 'table à trois' or 'ein Tisch für drei' which we are choosing to leave - so you can't really blame them, can you?

I realise the EU is essentially run by two countries, after all it was their idea. Although one has slightly more power than the other! I don’t have any illusions though that the UK was that far up the table. We may have been just above the salt along with Holland, Belgium, Italy, etc, but we bought that position.

I also rather think that the main reason the east Europeans were only allowed in (apart from rubbing Russia’s nose in the mud) is to provide a work force for the west. But that might just be my suspicious mind.

Just a couple of verifiable facts to add to the debate.

Exports of Scotch Whisky reached a record £4.7 billion in 2018.

Whisky accounts for 20% of all UK Food and Drink Exports.