EU elections

Sorry, in my last post, for good choices please read informed choices.

Isn't it strange, that had the referendum gone the other way with exactly the same margin,no one on the remain side would have suggested for one moment that it was too close to call, so invalid, that another referendum was necessary two/ three years down the line just to make sure that people still felt the same, no question that the voters were misled by project fear, in fact a perfectly acceptable, legal result in every respect! How weird is that?!!

Lemon let me explain it in simple terms. I have asked over and over again for one of you to change my mind, give me facts to prove I am wrong but you haven't. I have frequently stated that my mind is open to persuasion but none of you has attempted to persuade me.

It was Urmston who stated that I was simplistic and insulted my intelligence to which I obviously replied. I agree that on the surface she appears to be pleasant but, in my case, she has an underlying manner of implying I am not clever enough to understand. Time and again she has refused to tell me the facts of why she thinks leaving is better than staying and tried to make it look as if I am stupid. I have simply responded in a reasonable manner and challenged her. She has failed to respond to my questions.

Can you answer them instead please? I can understand you want to defend her but attacking me still does not answer the important questions.

fire I find that a really stupid argument, trotted out by both those parties but I think its the first time I have seen it by anyone else. There are so many reasons for voting for an MP and their stance on Brexit was not the reason most voted in the GE. The same will happen after the EU vote, they will all claim it is some sort of victory. Surely we all have to look beyond the obvious?

Jabber if the vote had gone the other way of course there would not be the same outrage. It would have been a case of 'better the devil you know' and life would have gone on as before. The mess we are in is because of the lies and criminality which led people to believe something that was never going to be achievable. If you believe something is very important you work to achieve it. All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

A question for the remainers.
If there was a second referendum and the remainers 'won' by a slight margin.
Would they pleased, over the moon.
Would the say 'Thats the end of the matter lets crack on',
Or would they say 'well it was only by a slight margin so we will agree to third referendum?

As for the leavers
Well a precedence would have been set by the remainers, winning by a 'Slight margin' is not enough, so a third referendum could be proposed.

?England swings like pendulum do.....

You are not comparing like with like. The normal practice is to require a supermajority, say a two thirds majority on a 75% turnout to change a constitution. The status quo should prevail unless the proposed alternative has overwhelming support. This is because such a huge change would be collossaly expensive, risky and disruptive as brexit has been shown to be.

Bearing in mind the criminality, lies and unobtainablity, why on earth did a good majority of MP's on all sides vote in favour of triggering article 50, and compound that deceit by their election stance?!! Why, at the time, would people have not believed their honesty? or commitment?!! Obviously no one ever will again, but along then we sadly, mistakenly, to our ever lasting dismay and disappointment, did!!!!!

May be so Varian
But my point is if we have another referendum and the result is by a very small margin to remain in th EU then surely those wishing to leave would invariably call for a third referendum.

That's as may be, but you must blame politicians on all sides of the H of C for how the referendum was run. Its not the fault of the electorate how these things are organised! Again we can only believe what we are told, and behave accordingly. We can hardly be blamed for mismanagement?!!!!

For sure you will have to run another referendum in exactly the same way as the first one in the interests of fairness, with the addition of Mrs Mays deal.

It is not the case that all MPs voted to invoke Article 50.

The Liberal Democrats, SNP, and Plaid Cymru opposed the bill, as did 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke .

Latest European Parliament voting intention:

presumably just the intentions of English voters.
Other views are possible from RUK voters, whose views matter too.

Varian I know that there were MPs who voted against Article 50, but the majority did vote for Article 50.

Both sides of this ridiculous situation are getting more entrenched and down to splitting ever decreasing “hairs” to prove their point.

Nonnie do you ever stop to think that others have different views on the EU than you do?
I have zilch interest in providing you with anything aimed at ‘changing your mind’ and in any case I suspect you are not at all interested in reading any even if I did.
You made your choice three years ago, and everyone else made theirs.Since then we have all had ample time to reflect on our choices, I imagine that most people are still happy with the way they voted, and arguing the toss with people you don’t know on social media about those choices is pointless.I respect the way that anyone voted, it would be pleasant if everybody did.

Incidentally, there is plenty to read on the internet on the pros and cons of leaving the EU ( from all kinds of sources.)

Some evidence of BP attitude to NHS

mobile.twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1128997897230573568/photo/1

Oh dear seems like a lot of pompous condescending posts from Remainers to me on here.

If as one post says all politicians tell lies namely the Conservatives and Labour re honouring the referendum and triggering Article 50 and saying no deal better than a bad deal but the liar PM May trying to foist her so called deal on us which no one wants its no wonder voters are flocking to the Brexit Party in their thousands its the fastest growing political party in modern times.

When it comes to politicians telling lies, there is one outstanding champion

www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-xLmI352vE

Hilarious, but very true & sad & I have to say he is a dangerous person to hold any position of power.

Firecracker123, with reference to your post @ 14:12 today, I wish to point out that the Brexit party in no way democratic in its structure as are other political parties in this country.

In that, it has Jeremy (the Dear Leader) Farage who appoints all in HIS party to posts and candidate positions. Those giving their £25 to Farage do not become members but "supporters" with no say in how their contributions are handled or how it is spent outside of the Farage decisions

In short, Farage is running a one-person dictatorship organisation, and that is what those giving their money so blindly are supporting.

Further to my post above, Farage is a person who will walk away from his car having been involved in a road traffic accident, leaving a thirteen-month-old child screaming in the back of the other vehicle.

Some leader.

I could believe it - did he?

Yes, he most certainly did Maw, and even his chauffeur was "dumbfounded" by the way he got out of the car, picked up his bag and walked away without even enquiring as to the wellbeing of others involved in the incident.

Of course one of those was a 13-month-old child left screaming in the back of the other car.

Farage has so far denied nothing in regard to his actions in the incident.

Follow this link for further details:-
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-walked-away-car-15073819

Cherry perhaps our posts crossed. I explained that 6 minutes before your post despite thinking it blindingly obvious.

Jabber I agree that the mess is down to our MPs. I can't agree that we should beleive them, I'm too old and cynical to do that! I think we are in this situation because people believed headlines and didn't read further.

Lemon did you think about that question before asking it? It makes no sense when I have asked (multiple times) for people to give me their opinions! You may suspect what you like but you are completely wrong. I voted to remain but have kept my eyes and ears open for reasons to change my mind for the last three years. During that time I have asked and asked but, like you, no one seems to have any facts to give me. I think it is a very sad state of affairs when someone closes their mind and assumes they have never made a mistake. Those mature enough to ask questions and listen to the answers and then make up their minds whether they were right or wrong are clearly likely to make a better decision. 'Incidentally', if we all wanted to only search on the Internet for opinions these political threads would all be redundant!

fire "Oh dear seems like a lot of pompous condescending posts from Remainers to me on here." is really rather a sad thing to say don't you think? How does that contribute to debate? Perhaps you would answer the question I keep asking but no one will answer - what are the arguments to leave which will make me change my mind? If not you perhaps someone else will.

Nonnie if you are still of the mind that remain was the correct ( for you) decision, why are you still, three years later, looking for reasons to vote leave? That vote is done and dusted and highly unlikely to be another referendum.
Immediately after the referendum, plenty of leave voters on GN gave their reasons for voting that way, and then again, and then again, it became obvious that remain voting posters didn’t really want to hear any facts/reasons/opinions, but just wanted to keep on challenging them over and over.
Of course there are plenty of facts as well as opinions on the internet about the EU, I wasn’t suggesting you look at more fora.
I won’t be engaging in any more posts around the ‘ give me your reasons,’ demands from anyone, because all it leads to is here we go round the mulberry bush.

Nonnie it's been nearly 3 years since the referendum if you've not changed your mind since then in my opinion you never will. Actually it was MaizieD's post not yours I was referring to.

Grandad I know all about the Brexit Party, I've read all the articles seen all the videos watched all their rallies live online on Facebook and today have paid my £25 to become a registered supporter and my husband has and we have never supported a political party before, so as Margaret Thatcher (who I admired) once said "This lady is not for turning" and it seems over 100,000plus other people feel the same.