Confirmatory Vote

I don’t see any alternative agree.

But what would be on the ballot. If there’s no deal it’s simple remain or leave.

Again

So you admit Farage is filling a dangerous vacuum Mycatisahacker ?
Why are you and others encouraging him then?
There are other valid alternatives such as the Greens, LibDems -or if you are set on Leave, the Labour Party.
Personally a reformed LP with Yvette Cooper at its head would get my vote.

mycat I think it would have to be something that MPs would pass so probably whatever deal they can agree with the EU and stay in the EU. I can't see anything else working. Although I prefer to stay in the EU I think simply revoking A50 would be too divisive so it should go back to the EU.

All this talk of TM being a remainer is obfuscation. I have asked for reasons for that statement but like so many other questions to leavers it remains unanswered.

Maw

I am not defending him anymore than supporting him but I don’t consider him any more of a threat than Corbyn and momentum.

As I say hard right and hard left are equally dangerous.

I admire yvette and wanted her to b leader. I don’t really support her Brexit stance but I know she is acting out of principal and what beloved is right. Not self interest.

But can you see labour doing a deal with them nonnie or Mays deal.

Oh dear this is starting to sound like Noel Edmonds!

Yes a reformed Labour Party would and always has got my vote but not this present lot.

Do you know it’s 25 years since the lovely John smith died.

Now he would have been a fabulous PM.

Oops Margaret Beckett was talking about him on radio 5 and apparently during the Thatcher/Lawson rivalry he stood at the dispatch box and sang the first line of neighbours.

Both benches collapsed even they smiled apparently.

Class act

Remain did not win the referendum. It doesn't matter how difficult it is to leave the EU; that is what must happen otherwise this country is no better than all the other countries which are considered corrupt and the UK will not be respected on the world stage ever again. If there has to be another vote then the ballot paper should only have leave options on it to chose from.

The EU has taken advantage of the loud voices of Remain advocates in the UK by putting together a rubbish deal when everyone should have accepted the democratic decision of the Referendum. If it had gone the other way, the subject would be a closed book. In 1975, when the country voted to stay in the EU, those who voted to leave were unhappy about the outcome but there were no marches, petitions, court cases, visiting Brussels behind the Prime Minister's back etc. as democracy was respected. After 40 odd years, it was fair that it was time for another vote. All of you who don't believe in democracy because you didn't get the result they preferred should be ashamed of their behaviour.

We have a very weak Prime minister who also does not believe in democracy as her 'so called' deal gives all power to the EU.

quizqueen

I personally agree with your post and we should never have got so entwined in Europe in the first place but we are where we are.

We were always going to get a rubbish deal be cause the EU don’t want others to leave

Maybe we would have got s much better deal than mays as she’s been awful but we do need to be careful of our economy.

I personally think a second referendum will result in a much bigger vote to leave because British people are famously stubborn.

Maw I think it's you who are sadly deluded after reading in your post that you want Vyette Cooper to be the Labour Leader, her constituency Pontefract voted 70% Leave in the referendum and feel she has betrayed them she promised to respect the vote and she also voted for article 50 and most want her out, there is a petition to get rid of her. Labour is a Remain Party and so are the Conservatives with liar May ? as PM. The only Leave party is the Brexit Party all the other parties will stitch us up again, we've been lied to and been deceived but won't be again. A big change in British politics is on the way.

mycat no I can't. That is why I think there is no alternative to asking us all to vote. Even if they did manage to cobble something together there won't be enough support to get it through so we should be offered a choice of the best they have versus staying put.

quiz but how do you make that happen? We have to face reality and there is no agreement in parliament so what do you suggest. I disagree that it is the fault of the EU but it is what it is. If you were to look at it as if we were part of the EU and another country wanted to leave, would you do anything different to what they have done? I think you would have protected the EU's interests.

Fire if you are right then EC is a very courageous woman. She is standing up for what she believes is right for the country at the risk of losing her job. I think they should all do that. Please could you explain why both major parties are Remain? I don't understand.

I don’t agree with yvette either but I do think she is not acting in self interest but what she genuinely believes is right for the country.

I admire her for that whilst disagreeing with her.

Boris and Lammy those types are just out for themselves. No genuine feelings of right and wrong just what’s best for their careers

I can’t see though that leave won’t be on the ballot paper. It really has to be whether we think it’s right or not.

Remain/leave /any deal they come up with.

Quiz Queen - the referendum in 1975 was after the details had been put to the people. The result was 67% to Remain and 33% to leave. Despite the fact that there were no demonstrations etc, certain people - NF for one - have done their best to cause mayhem in the EU. I would suggest that 52% to 48% in what was only an advisory referendum was not truly democratic.

We can only hope that the Labour Party are allowed to get off the fence and support a confirmative vote unequivocally as it has been revealed that a huge number of folk who voted LP in 2017 will not support them in the EU election.

For every ex-LP voter who is defecting to the brexit party, no less than FOUR are defecting to the LibDems or other remainer parties.

totally disagree of your assessment of Lammy

I don’t really understand labours position.

I know they want to hang on to their core voters a lot of whom voted leave but equally cobbling a rotten deal with the Tories would surely alienate both those voters and the new ones.

At least they could spin it as a final confirmation vote now we know more details but it’s on s par with the bumbling of labour front bench and Corbyn.

Although I suspect the upsurge in the labour vote in 2015 had more to do with the tuition fees promised,which have since vanished, and anger at TM fir calling another election in the first place.

jura2

I used to like him but his disgraceful comments about police lies over the number of Grenfell Tower deaths and his nazi remarks were grotesque and showed a chancer after publicity.

Listening reality, it sound as if the compromise cannot work. The Tories will tie in what they can but they cannot agree to a Customs Union for services because of the extreme leavers who would feel they had lost their version of leave. This means, at the very least because of what that will do to the NHS, which we know the ERG (and Farage) will happily see privatised, that the Labour Party in Parliament cannot vote for it.

What next?

I'm surprised that so many of you seem to think that a second referendum (which is what a confirmatory vote would be) is likely to return an increased vote. I don't think that's the case at all but, if it was, at least we'd know that there was still majority support for it.

Personally, I haven't come across any Remain voter who would now vote Leave but I've cone across several Leave voters who wish they'd voted Remain and would do so now given the opportunity.

Slightly off topic but in line with the more general comments about the difficulty in reaching a deal, no-one has mentioned the Irish border and backstop issue which is the main thing stopping some MPs from voting for TM's deal. It's an issue for any form of withdrawal agreement which doesn't keep us in the customs union.

See I have many friends who voted leave and would again and not one is worn down or fed up just angry.

Dh who was a staunch remainer would consider voting leave in a second vote as he strongly feels what’s happened since the first vote has been lies and deceit at its worst from all the main parties.

Just heard on LBC that there are record numbers of EU citizens living snd working in the UK!

So much for a hostile environment and I guess lots are coming before we leave and hope they can stay.

And good for them

Mycat if leave was on the ballot paper and won would we not have gone full circle and be where we are now? I think it would have to be leave on specified terms.

I agree about the tuition fee bribe which has now been replaced by paying 16 years olds £10 per hour.

I haven't yet heard the figures about EU people coming here but, if they are, then those who voted leave are responsible. I do know there has been a huge number of EU citizens applying for citizenship.

But Nonnie the majority voted narrowly to leave 3 years ago.

if as have another vote, and I think we should knowing more about Brexit than we did, then leave must be on the ballot paper.

If we don’t that would really be seen as unfair in my opinion and undemocratic

I know we would be back to the start if there was a bigger majority to leave but that’s democracy .

I think a bigger vote to leave would trigger May leaving and a general election and that’s got to be better than this state of affairs now. Surely.