Confirmatory Vote

But mycat if leave were on the paper and it won how would it be achieved? I think we would still have an impasse.

Honestly I don’t bloody know

But I do know that you will have millions of pissed off voters who may go to the horrible right and not Nigel Farrage but really nasty far right.

I guess a fudge would be best which is I suppose what may is trying to do.

Ending free movement and ‘taking back laws’ etc blah

Back to square 1!

Which Law or Laws do you want to take back, please?

I ask and ask again, and not a single Leaver has come up with a single one- so it is very confusing, to say the least?

jura2

I am being devils advocate.

Rightly or wrongly that’s a perception of millions of people and you would need to demonstrate that Britain’s laws supersede EU laws. You can’t just ignore it you have to practically demonstrate that it’s so.

but which one- a concrete exemple please.

That is the point I was making mycat I can't see any other way forward whichever side of the argument anyone is coming from. I din't think that was a right further than NF! Of course there will be voters who are not happy whichever way it goes. We have yet to ascertain where the majority will vote but of one thing I am certain - they will all claim they won!!

BTW I read that the UK voted through about 92% of EU laws so it isn't a 'them and us' situation. I doubt all of the other 27 voted for that many.

jura I hope you get an answer but don't hold your breath I have been asking leaver for years to give me reasons to change my mind but am still waiting! The question has been known to close down threads though, I suspect because there is nothing left to say

It is entirely wrong to say that EU law supersedes U.K. law.

It has absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about U.K. domestic law.

Where is does take precedence is in relation to trade and VAT. But that makes absolute sense or the single market/customs union couldn’t work.

The U.K. has always been the strongest voice in constructing Eu law.

quizqueen
I entirely agree with your comment @13.59 yesterday (Tues)
Very well put.

Starmer is just setting out his stall ( to be a future Leader.)
It’s highly unlikely there will be another referendum.

Latest poll from Kantor (13th May) asked If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

The result (excluding don't knows) was 56% remain 44% leave.

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

Mycatisahacker - Sadly thousands of people in various forums or in the media have been trying to demonstrate that the EU does not control our lawmaking bodies but apparently without success. One must conclude that either the millions who still believe that we are controlled by the EU either can't understand or willfully do not want to.

I think that the adult children of the people on here have benefited from some of the EU rules that we have introduced. For example, until a few years ago, those in part time employment did not have the same treatment as regards holiday pay as those in full time employment in that the didn't receive any. Once the rule was implemented those, such as part time lecturers, teachers and agency workers etc etc became entitle to pro rata holiday pay.

There is always some margin of error in polls but the trend has been clear for the last two years. The latest poll from Opinium gives 58% Remain, 42% Leave (excluding don't knows)

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-remaining-in-the-eu-which-would-you-support/?removed

Varian there must be a point polls could reach when they start looking at revoke. If they did I would hope they would go ahead with citizens assemblies so we can all understand much more.

Nonnie I hear you I really do.

re EU law vs UK law.
Over the years as members of the EU I thought the UK retained independence over a few things. The main one being not joining the euro.
Also internal labour laws.
Could be wrong, and there might be others. Enshrined in the various agreements and treaties post 1973.

The polls are interesting and going the way I would like but I think the margins are quite narrow. Hard to know whether they really interviewed a good sample. One poll I saw had a majority of people sampled in an age range of, I think, about 28-46 which is fine but not an indication of the voting outcome. Older people are more likely to vote.

I think there will probably be a bigger turnout next week than usual.

Usually when people say we are being ruled by the EU - they can never say which EU law they don't like unless its one of the mythical ones like bendy bananas. Anyway, if the UK doesn't like an EU law we can used our elected representatives to veto it. Whats wrong with agreeing health and safety procedures? Environmental protection? Food standards?

Let me put it simply and in brief. L
EU law supersedes the laws of member states and, if they are found to break those laws, they will be hauled in front of the ECJ.
Not all member states agree with this view but they usually practice them.
When we joined the EU, we 'took on' the laws of the EU, the majority of which were broadly similar to our own, however, a particular case showed that there are some differences between Scottish law and English law which were not taken into account when we joined, therefore were not abrogated (repealed/voided)

L

The European Communities Act, passed by Parliament in 1972, accepted the supremacy of EU law. That principle has also been endorsed by the UK courts.

Although a more recent law included some restrictions on the application of the supremacy principle in the UK, the principle itself was not challenged.

fullfact.org/europe/eu-law-and-uk/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwt_nmBRD0ARIsAJYs6o2O1IfZPuD_OAc4yq8fChuUUJVFRdZQFGYbxtnpL5IEwN0CXXimXrQaAk79EALw_wcB

G54 which EU laws have been detrimental to us?

Some posters think they have copyright.
I have a masters LLM (Eur)

Gabriella. Not exactly right about EU law.

All law relating to trade including things like VAT law, employment law, fisheries, competition and agriculture are by mutual agreement of all participants and whom have FULL control over implementation or change to these laws are entirely within the EU remit.

To put it simply

It is how trade, the single market etc can work. Without these common laws it could not possibly work.

All interested parties, like the nation members and indeed the businesses concerned are actively encouraged to get involved whenever a change or new law is introduced.

It also has as its aims things like equality before the law, a high standard of living for all populations, a high degree of protection of the lived environment, etc.

IT DOES NOT COVER things like
Domestic security
Welfare and social security
Education
Family law
NHS
Criminal law

EU law which remember is made by ALL the participant nations and so in effect originates in our governments is estimated to cover approx. 20% of our total laws.

I forgot to mention Tax law being entirely within the U.K. remit.

So to take an example, a business might object to a particular VAT ruling by HMRC. This business will take his grievance to the ECJ who will rule according to EU law taking into account the presentations made by the interested parties. All interested parties work within these laws, it makes for a total level playing field. Every business operating within the EU can have full confidence that the rules under which he is operating also apply to his competitor in every other EU country.

So if say the ECJ agree with the business and over rules HMRC for example, it may affect every other business in the EU who are supplying the same goods. Jaffa cakes is an old but good example.