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Just when we thought it couldn't get any worse...

(62 Posts)
GrandmaKT Mon 20-May-19 20:02:18

I am getting increasingly alarmed by the escalating trade war between the USA and China.
If we leave the EU, we will very soon be in the position of wanting to strike trade deals with both of these super nations (and their various satellites). I can see us being dictated to by Trump as to who we can and cannot deal with.
It seems to me that this is not a good time to be setting up shop on our own. Strength being in numbers I would feel much more secure remaining in the EU. I'd be interested in hearing any theories that indicate we would be in a stronger trading position by leaving.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 20-May-19 20:10:40

There isn’t one. Strength in numbers is the key.

I have no doubt that those keen to leave will post that everything will be ok. But honestly, they have absolutely nothing to back them up. And in fact there isn’t a single piece of evidence that supports the idea that we will do as well as we are doing now. It is ignorance to insist otherwise. The best thing if we leave us to ensure that we work as closely as possible with our nearest trading block. One whose culture mirrors our own, and with whom we can positively identify ourselvex with.

Framilode Mon 20-May-19 20:26:03

We will end up doing a trade deal with the US that will be entirely to their advantage. Of course Trump wants us to leave. The EU is a strong block and anything that weakens it he sees as to his advantage.

rosecarmel Mon 20-May-19 21:16:14

I'm from the US .. and can't shed anymore light on the trade war than what any of you already know or can find out from news sources-

But I do have a question:

Aren't you tired of buying junk made in China?

They steal intellectual property, lie and produce junk- The entire relationship we have with them is, well .. I can't even think of a "worse enough word" to describe it ..

Consider fish- It's caught off the east coast of the US, processed on Chinese fishing rigs in the Atlantic, shipped back to China to be packaged, then shipped back to the US market for sale -- labeled as Cod, but it's not, it's Pollock-
Not to mention it tastes like shi

They produce massive amounts of honey- But .. they buy corn from the US, make corn syrup, mix it with the honey, label it as "Pure" and then export it back to the US market for sale-

They use toxic fume related releasing agents and other harmful chemicals in the process of their manufacturing a wide variety of goods -- think in the thousands, not hundreds- Many of which are used for cooking and household use that come in contact with animal and humans daily- Check out Amazon reviews, for a general example, that reflect the chemical abuse- People are quite literally overwhelmed by the fumes upon unpacking their purchased products from the boxes-

Pet food? Made in China- And even if made in the US, the ingredients were? Imported from China ..

I could go on .. and on .. and ..

Yes, it's (the trade war) going to be a mess- But a mess that will eventually produce healthier, quality products and trade deals-

I grew up in a factory town- All but few have been razed, but are scheduled to be, the land to be developed for housing for commuters to NYC-

When it comes to manufacturing, farming and trade the US made some very, very .. very .. terrible mistakes ..

Both sides of isle support the Trade War .. and for good reason ..

Whitewavemark2 Mon 20-May-19 21:20:55

rose we are protected by a lot of what you are describing by our food regulations and trade regulations.

We have helped produce these regulations with our fellow trade members and it has served us well.

paddyann Mon 20-May-19 21:20:59

to be honest Rosecarmel many of us are very concerned about the quality of US food that we might have to import ,the flabby beef and chlorine washed chicken for a start .

lemongrove Mon 20-May-19 21:25:27

Rosecarmel 👍🏻Excellent post,unfortunately it’s been getting harder and harder not to buy anything made in China, but I do my personal best by checking labels.
I would far rather we traded more with the US.😀

GrandmaKT Mon 20-May-19 21:30:17

Most of the imports from China to the UK are telecommunications, electrical machinery and office machinery. I'm not aware that any of these are widely considered as 'junk'.
Luckily the EU food regulations are very stringent, so we are protected from miss-labelled food such as you describe.

GrandmaKT Mon 20-May-19 21:31:49

Crossed posts Whitewavemark!

Whitewavemark2 Mon 20-May-19 21:35:20

🙂 lets hope that what rose describes isn’t ahead of us. What idiots we would be.

rosecarmel Mon 20-May-19 21:36:15

People .. I don't blame A N Y O N E for currently having reservations (fear ..) for engaging in US trade ..

I challenged my son the other day to come up with 3 quality products produced in the US he only came up with 1, and he even presented it as a question .. but the product was Kitchen-Aid ..

We frequent estate sales in an effort to find things of quality that have lasted decades and may last many more-

One other product I can think of would be the Berkey water filter .. made in the US but some of the parts are imported, but not from China-

I also make efforts not to buy from China, but it's incredibly difficult to do here since ALL stores are predominantly stocked with items from China ..

I no longer shop Walmart ..

rosecarmel Mon 20-May-19 21:38:19

We look at many of your products with envy .. !!!

lemongrove Mon 20-May-19 21:39:44

It’s a race as to who takes over the world first.... China, Tesco
Or Starbucks.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 20-May-19 21:41:52

rose we DO trade with the USA, but do so as part of a powerful economic block. This ensures that such a large and economically powerful country like the USA and China are met with a trading block equally as powerful, so we can negotiate as equals. What we are worried about is when/if we stand as a single country without the clout or indeed the expertise to negotiate on equal terms.

rosecarmel Mon 20-May-19 21:47:11

Whitewavemark2, I appreciate the insight, thank you- I have to admit my ignorance and tunnel vision when it comes to the subject -- having focused on my/our anger regarding the matter, more than learning about it ..

lemongrove, I've no idea! At one time I'd of thought "McDonalds"!

Whitewavemark2 Mon 20-May-19 22:00:33

rose don’t forget the level of USA debt owned by the Chinese. The USA has followed this policy of selling debt to China in order to fund its federal spending. China in turn by owning these Treasury notes is able to able to keep the yuan weak relative to the dollar.
China’s ownership of American debt is changing the balance of economic power

So ironically the USA has helped fuel cheap Chinese imports

rosecarmel Tue 21-May-19 02:04:54

Then it only stands to reason the US begins to gradually back off providing fuel for the production and distribution of cheap Chinese goods-

I think China will do what they need to do gradually as well-

Something has to be done-

rosecarmel Tue 21-May-19 02:08:42

I don't think what ever is done won't impact economies .. But they will bounce back ..

gradually ..

123coco Tue 21-May-19 11:17:29

Anyone who thinks we won’t be damaged by leaving will be reassure I’m sure a Brexit Party MEP hopeful on the radio arguing Leave was worth it ANY PRICE and we all will be worse off but only for 30 YEARS!! I heard it myself on the Nicky Campbell show on radio. I should have a choice about wether I want this. And yes. If anyone thinks Trumps isolationist polices are not scary then I despair. And a trade deal with him will be a very fickle thing and remember Farage is for private health so I expect he’s already been dividing up the NHS for his buddy. We are in great trouble!

GrannyAnnie2010 Tue 21-May-19 11:24:27

Trump isn't forever.

lemongrove Tue 21-May-19 11:38:02

Neither is Farage....honestly you would think that NF was in the Cabinet, the power that is ascribed to him!
We are not in ‘great trouble’ stop the hysterics people.

quizqueen Tue 21-May-19 11:44:12

Mr Farage is not for private health, that's just an untruth which gets repeated. He has had several operations, including for cancer, and speaks highly of them. He does think though, because of the increasing population and expensive treatments the NHS has to deal with, it cannot go on in its present form, but that is a different argument.

As for China, I do think most of the goods they produce are substandard and made not to last, so I avoid them as much as possible and try to support British producers. If we ever leave the EU and do a trade deal with the USA or anyone else, no one will make you buy their imports if you don't think they are to your liking.

We may be a bit worse off for a few years, after leaving the EU, but freedom is priceless. Ask any caged animal!

Grandad1943 Tue 21-May-19 12:05:56

I posted the below on a different thread yesterday, but there was no response whatsoever. So, I will post it again here as this thread seems to have been opened on the same subject I posted on. Also, I have an owned an Huawei P20 Pro phone made in China for the last fifteen months, and it is by far the best phone I have ever had, certainly very far from sub-standard.

So, If anyone wishes to witness the sheer stupidity of Britain leaving the European Union, then they only have to look at the situation between Huawei and Google which has been brought about by Donald Trump protectionism of Apple.

Apple are seeing the sales of its iPhone, Ipad and Mac system laptops fall drastically due partly to pressure the Trump administration has placed on the company. Therefore, Donald Trump sees the solution to that in his warped mind as crippling Apples major competitor, Huawei.

In that, Trump has effectively banned Google from trading with Huawei, which will mean that the worlds most popular mobile operating system known as Andriod will now not be made available to Huawei phones and Tablets.

However, the above should make everyone think on Britain leaving the European Union and signing a trade deal with the United States. In that, it could well be that the Trump administration will soon be threatening UK companies with not being allowed to sell their products in the US if they trade with any other company or country Trump does not like.

Of course, Trump hides this blatant protectionism under the label of "National Security", which means no one can ask any revalent questions.

Remaining as part of the worlds largest trading block would mean that Trump would find it much more difficult to intimidate the governments of all twenty-eight countries, and any company threatened by the Trump administration would have all those EU countries it could still securely trade in.

However, on our own as a single nation, or isolated as a single company, all should think on that.

rosecarmel Tue 21-May-19 12:11:23

No, Trump isn't forever, but he stands a good chance of winning in 2020, meaning 4 more years in office -

There "appears" to be an emerging 30 year plan in the works - Republicans are scrambling to appoint conservative judges prior to the upcoming election in an effort to stack the judicial system- So even after Trump no longer holds office, support for his policies could hold for decades to come -

It's unfortunate that Democrats are getting behind Joe Biden, because he will lose -- almost solely due to his past relationship with China and current claims that China poses no problems- In other words, Biden supports corruption- And Chinese junk-

Democrats, as a whole, will not "vote" for candidates solely based on party- So even if Biden is nominated, he won't win-

Nanny41 Tue 21-May-19 12:21:10

We are bombarded with things made in China many sub standard, often ned to return things, we dont need more trade with China,as for the US I dread to think if the UK has to keep to Trumps rules.We are stronger in numbers, and I hope Brexit never happens, but it will of course, oh dear hindsight is a marvellous thing.