The Labour Party

If Corbyn had campaigned against leave instead of buggering off on holiday . If Corbyn had got his backside off the fence and done what official opposition parties do, fight the government things could be so different.

But dodged and dived whilst waiting for his puppet masters to tell him what to say and do.

He must have more splinters up his arse from sitting on his fence than I hsve in the drum of my desk pencil sharpener.

Annie I thought you were a lady .

It was not Corbyn that called the divisive referendum.

It was not Corbyn that triggered article fifty without even looking at what Britain had signed up to by way of its membership of the EU.

It was not Corbyn who demanded of the EU negotiators terms that could not be granted purely on the basis of the treaties that Britain played a leading part in formulating.

It was not Corbyn that did not even think on the situation of Britain leaving the EU would bring about in Northern Ireland.

It was not Corbyn that did not envisage the situation that Britain leaving the EU could create at the channel ports.

It is not Corbyn that is now spending six billion pounds on preparing Britain Britain for a "no-deal" Brexit that was never mentioned even as a possibility by leavers during the referendum campaign.

It was not Corbyn who stated on the day that article fifty was signed that "these will be the easiest negotiation ever concluded"

The above and much more has been stated and carried out by this useless Tory government under the direction of its neo-fascist ERG members.

And that is the truth of the situation.

Grandad xx

We all know that Grandad- but it is Corbyn who allowed them to get away with it all - which will probably lead to No Deal and all the that will come with it. But you are still prepare to allow us to be thrown out into a disastrous No Deal - so your Corbyn can come out of the ashes in a GE.
(he won't btw)

Corbyn hasn’t done a thing since he became leader, except shout at a reporter ‘stop harassing me’ and hiding behind a glass door and do the camera act ‘I feel your pain’ .

I bet Corbyn thanks his lucky stars it wasn't he who called the referendum Grandad!

It was, of course, Labour party policy for years and he is (was) a staunch Eurosceptic.

But of course, the reason he did not call a referendum was because he was never PM (and never likely to be).

I read something interesting recently; apparently Keir Starmer is annoying some people by taking charge at meetings. I wondered which people and did think 'well, someone has to'.

PMQ, Johnson flapping his hands around and Corbyn clutching his written questions

jura2 Quote [We all know that Grandad- but it is Corbyn who allowed them to get away with it all] End Quote.

Please inform me jura2 how Corbyn "
allowed them to get away with it all" being that he is only the leader of the opposition in the House of Commons.

The Conservatives are the Largest single party in the Commons and with the taxpayer paid for the support of Northern Ireland democratic Unionist party (UDP) they hold a majority in Parliament that cannot be defeated if they all vote as one body.

Of course, in the above, they are dominated by the neo-fascist ERG group and that has brought Britain into the crisis it faces now.

Corbyn and the Labour party could do nothing in regard to that situation coming about as I view it.

So Jura2 please advise on how the above could have been made different by Corbyn?

There have always been a number of posters on GN who have tried to blame Corbyn for every possible wrong, but this pathetic assertion that the present situation is all his fault really is too much. All I can imagine is that the people who voted in this Tory government have just realised what a shambles it is, and being completely unable to accept any responsibility for this, they are blindly casting around and blaming anyone.

The Tories have presented the opposition with an open goal for the last two years. Corbyn has failed to even kick the ball.

Grandad

" It would seem that several on this thread continually use the words/names of Corbyn and Momentum with obsessional frequency and to the disregard of all else"
----

Yep.

I have spoken of the Jeremy for Leader /Momentum. /Labour Party for ' years ' on GN now, not just on this thread. That is how I access the Labour to be since Corbyn became Leader. Commonly described as ' a party within a party'.

Not sure what your post was about, other than bringing the Tory Party into the equation again. One could say by quoting your own words---

'continually using the Tory Party to avoid speaking about Labour with obsessional frequency and to the disregard of all else"

Did no-one read Whitewave's OP?

All Corbyn critics etc can now have a thread all to yourselves.

[sigh]

Really Shoequeen58 Did you miss all this then?
On 15 January 2019, a motion of no confidence in the government of Theresa May was tabled in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom. On 16 January, the House rejected it by a vote of 325 to 306.

The motion was laid by Jeremy Corbyn, the Leader of the Labour Party and Leader of the Opposition, after the government lost a Commons vote to secure parliamentary backing for the government's deal for the UK's withdrawal from the European Union by 230 votes on the evening of 15 January.That vote, 432 to 202 in favour of rejecting the deal, represented the largest defeat for a sitting government in modern history.
It isn't Corbyn's fault that the DUP have propped up this government.

POG's in regard to your post @ 18:31 today, you seem to view Momentum as a party within the Labour Party even though they have all been democratically elected to the positions they hold.

However, you do not acknowledge the same of the Neo-Facist ERG group within the Torty Pary. In that they have had huge influence on this shambles of a government, and the crisis brought on this nation, but no one voted for them to have such power in the party.

Party within the Tory Party?

It is Corbyn's fault that about twenty five Labour MPs did not support his motion.

It is also Corbyn's fault that he did not accept Jo Swinson's proposal that a motion of no-confidence be made by the official opposition before the summer recess.

There is a real danger that we will stumble into a disastrous no-deal brexit by default, against the wishes of the British people and the majority of MPs because Corbyn chickened out of confronting the issue.

Thank you Varian, you beat me to it whilst I was having supper.

Trisher, I so often agree with you- but the above post is just below the belt. Many of us who say that Corbyn has not been effective in opposition, is still wavering on that bleeding fence- and is very unlikely to ever be PM even if there was a GE now- are not anti Corbyn, believe all the antisemitism accusations are BS, and certainly did NOT vote the Tories in, nor voted for Brexit.

POG's you have often spoken on what you view as "the shortcomings of the Labour Party on this forum. However, as so often has been pointed out to you, the Labour Party are not the party of government and therefore cannot have any effect on the lives of the people who reside in this country at this point in time.

However, the Tory Party are the party of government at this point in time, and therefore to point to the crisis that party has brought on this nation is essential and therefore many of us on this forum will continue to carry that out.

Therefore, criticism of the Labour Party matters little as that body can have no effect on our lives. However, the actions of the ERG/Tory party affects us all, and therefore pointing out the shortcomings of this shambles of a government is far more important as their actions directly affect us all as we of this nation have witnessed to our detriment over the past four years.

I refer you back to Varian's post. Yes, Corbyn could have provided effective opposition and made a huge difference. He sat on the fence- still is. But the time he comes off- it will probably be too late. Gambling with our future.

And no, I am not anti-Corbyn- and I do believe he is/was a great activist. I have been part of many events in the past with him.

And the policy of the media to ignore any positive/creative ideas, comments etc from Corbyn (and the other groups of his party), of the views of Johnson's opposition .

So if calling for a vote of No Confidence and inflicting on this government the biggest defeat in modern history isn't an effective opposition please can someone explain to me exactly what is?
I understand people don't like Corbyn. I understand they don't want to blame the government. I don't understand exactly what. they expect the opposition to do.
Any principled government would have resigned after the momentous defeat.

But pointing out the far left and unions gave us 14 years of a Thatcher/Major government is ignored

Varian Quote [It is Corbyn's fault that about twenty five Labour MPs did not support his motion.

It is also Corbyn's fault that he did not accept Jo Swinson's proposal that a motion of no-confidence be made by the official opposition before the summer recess.] End Quote.

Varian, I presume when you refer to "Corbyn's vote" above that you are speaking on the vote of no confidence put forward by the Labour Party following the third failure of Theresa May's withdrawal agreement to pass through the House of Commons. However, even if those twenty-five Labour MPs had voted in support of that vote of no confidence that would still have not commanded a majority in the house with the DUP supporting the government. Therefore once again Corbyn could change nothing as leader of the opposition. It is also being reported that a number of those twenty-five Labour MPs have now been called before their constituency parties to explain their actions.

As for Swinton demanding that Corbyn join her in laying down a further vote of no confidence on the day that Boris Johnson was elected as the Tory Party leader and was still forming his Cabinet, such action would have surely been doomed to failure as every Tory and UDP MP in the house would have voted against that motion on that day.

The above demonstrated how naive Swinton is, and Corbyn was perfectly right in refusing to put down such a motion.

trisher 'So if calling for a vote of No Confidence and inflicting on this government the biggest defeat in modern history isn't an effective opposition please can someone explain to me exactly what is?'

but he has NOT- that is the whole point. And NO, I do NOT 'not like Corbyn' - he is a geat activist- but he will not be the future PM - and his refusal to come off the fence and provide effective opposition in time to avert a No Deal disater- will never be forgiven.

The reason Jo asked on his first day- if that the House was closing for recess! Simple enough to understand.