Labour anti-semitism

gracesgranmk3 your point?

Boris Johnson the leading contender to be our next Prime Minister has described Muslim women wearing traditional dress as "Looking like post boxes." A well thought through comment that will undoubtedly enhance ethnic harmony in this country, I am sure.

Once more living up to his given title of Boris (The Buffoon) Johnson.

I was going to copy the whole of this article but it is simply too long. Sadly I know that means those, whose only intention is to constantly set up or add to threads out of spite and malice towards one person will not read it.

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/07/debunking-myth-that-anti-zionism-is-antisemitic

It is not necessarily my opinion. I do not know enough to have formed a solid opinion but I worry about all states that want to set themselves up for only one "race" whatever that race is.

I hear much the same from the racist and hate-filled anti-Islamic posts I read on another forum that come from those who associate themselves with either the Tories or, it used to be UKIP and is now the Brexit Party or, indeed, their great glee in having 'joined' both. They want 'England for the English' or 'Britain for the British' and what they think we should do in order to get it doesn't bear thinking about.

I totally believe in the existence of Israel and that international law should apply both to protect it and hold it to account. I also believe in all our anti-discrimination laws and that they apply equally and without exception to everyone.

I have never believed that any form of apartheid was right however and I find it really difficult to understand why any country just for one race is not an apartheid state. I feel really saddened, although I can sort of understand why the reply to an attempt to create an 'Aryan nation' brought about the feeling that an only Jewish nation was the answer but I would question if it actually is.

I would also question trueblue's statement that "So if someone is anti-zionist, it usually means they don't want the existence of a Jewish state." I imagine there are some who feel like that just as there are some who have very extreme views of what Israel should be but I doubt that everyone who is concerned about the path that country is treading has any wish for it not to exist.

I would march against any form of apartheid, white, Nazi, or whatever and I strain to see what difference there is in the views of a small number of some who are pro-Israel.

POGS is so right, she and I did have strong disagreements,
I didn’t believe racism was in the Labour Party, it was against all the party stood for.

I didn’t and don’t have tunnel vision and certainly don’t go into denial.

When I knew I was wrong I immediately apologise to POGS. I have never been one to suffer blind devotion.

Grandad, it is good to see some balance brought into this discussion. Thank you.

grace an apartheid state is where one group of people do not have equal citizen's rights, like voting rights or are separated from the indigenous citizens. This was the case on South Africa until the mid 1990s.

Are you suggesting that citizens in Israel do not have equal.rights like being made to attend different schools, hospitals & public services? Have you even visited the country to find out what is really happening, or are you informed by The Guardian or Independent

Arabs, Druze, Christians, Behais, Muslims and all races have equal rights in Israel. They have a right to vote, they sit in the Knesset, they can use all public services equally.

Maybe the very religious sects like to run exclusive schools.

What is your opinion on Britain being a Christian country, or Syria, Iran, Pakistan etc being Muslim countries? Do you believe all countries should be secular? If so, your argument might hold if you mentioned these as well.

I think your comparing Israel with what was apartheid South Africa shines a light on your biased- and may I say very uninformed- opinion.

My name is not Grace trueblue.

I know I am uninformed Trueblue, just as I know others are biased.

It is amusing, Johnson is seen as a racist because of his remarks about post boxes ,

Corbyn spent Passover with a group and said he learned much.

They hsve a prayer , smash the state of Israel, f**k the
queen, and prince Phillip, burn down parliament,
full communist. Amen.

Corbynites balanced ? ?

I can try and overcome my lack of information by reaching out and attempting to acquire it. What happens to the obsessively biased opinion I wonder?

Grandad

Good morning

Your latter posts certainly are in opposition to what you tell others they should do. Very strange. Totally a case of ' Do as I say not do as I do'.

Who has denied the reports of Islamophobia in the Tory Party?

The fact this thread is about the antisemitism in Labour is perfectly acceptable as was the thread entitled 'Islamophobia in the Conservative Party.'

As for Boris Johnson and the ' Post Box' comment I think there are people who did not read his article and believe he was being anti Muslim, anti wearing of the Burka.

Which is unrue!

The ' CONTEXT' of his article was actually backing the choice of Muslim women to wear the Burka or not.

He wrote the article if I am not mistaken when another European country had banned the wearing of the Burka.
I can't remember the latest country to do so but countries that have banned the wearing of the Burka are:-

Austria,
Denmark,
France,
Belgium,
Tajikistan,
Latvia,
Bulgaria,
Cameroon,
Chad,
Congo-Brazzaville,
Gabon,
Netherlands,
China,
Morocco
Sri Lanka.

You can overcome it GracesGran but you have to have an open mind.

GG Mk ' 3'

It is like sparring with an old friend.

I think I can say welcome back without breaking forum guide lines.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting POGS. I haven't hidden my breaks or my returns. I would have thought the MK3 would have told you all you need to know long ago.

I don't want to "spar", some of the aggression makes me feel physically ill, which is usually why I leave. There are many on here I would never consider 'friends', my friends do not make some of the abhorrent comments I see on here, but they are entitled to make them and it gives us a better overview of society doesn't it?

An intelligent discussion is all I ask for but at least Annie telling me I have to have an 'open mind' has given me the first out loud laugh of the day.

I have noticed yours was a strawman comment POGS. Perhaps, at some point, we will get some more intelligent, unbiased, input. I am still looking for all the unprejudiced information I can get.

GG MK 3

" I can try and overcome my lack of information by reaching out and attempting to acquire it. What happens to the obsessively biased opinion I wonder?"
----

I suppose you could overcome your lack of information by accepting evidence and not denying what facts are presented. You could return to past threads on the subjects you are interested in using ' search' as I suggested when you asked a similar question before. That is quite enlightening as to what has been said by individual posters who appear to have a selective memory block and think / hope others might forget what they said or playing silly buggers.

As for the obsessively biased opinion I think that is in the eye of the beholder and anybody with an interest in a particular subject, especially politics, could be guilty of that don't you think?

I can provide loads of links which would certainly help anyone overcome their lack of information, not links to
vox pox I promise

So who and what has been said in the past POGS that you see as people "playing silly buggers". I have a feeling you are reduced to making things up - possible - I think so.

It seems you are now set on a personal attack - or am I being too sensitive? You have certainly left the discussion to spend your time on having, it appears, a go at me in whatever way you can. I think, if you have something to say, it is best to just say it or everyone will reach their own opinion about what you are trying to do.

I am looking for "unprejudiced information" Annie. Reams of anti-Corbyn rhetoric don't interest me. Actually, pro-Corbyn rhetoric doesn't much either but you do encourage people to try and balance threads don't you, with all the bile you pour on the man.

I am going out. Hopefully, it was actually worth my time typing my observations several posts ago and someone will just come in and chat it over with me. That would be nice.

GracesGran you have never been sensitive, just as POGS
never makes thing up.

GracesGran*
'I am looking for "unprejudiced information"'
Aren't we all - I don't think it exists. And I don't mean just on here.Maybe all we can do is to read/listen to as many views as possible and come to our own conclusion.

I think it does exist but only if people are prepared to accept the truth may be in opposition to their own opinion.

I often post extracts from Hansard and even then there are some posters who refute what has been said although it is written verbatim. They continue to believe in conspiracy theories behind what the MP's report.

That's true POGS - I try to keep an open mind but it's difficult as I have my own personal prejudices.

Fennel those people some love to hate - experts - usually give their information in a way that tells you why they have looked at things the way the have, what others from all areas of thinking say, and the nuances of the results. It is usually the politicians who pick the bits they want to highlight and ignore the rest. Reading people coming from different original assumptions helps to. I do think it's possible.