Johnson’s Government

A friend of mine is a non-EU national, who is legally in the UK with a Tier 1 (entrepreneur) visa. She had hoped to spend a few days in France this summer, but has been told that her visitor's visa for France won't be processed until 29th August. Hopefully it won't take that long to process temporary visas for British citizens when they no longer have EU freedom of movement, but who knows? Maybe one of those who seems to think there won't be any problems with anything, could make some kind of guarantee from their insider knowledge.

This thread is turning quite mean spirited and nasty.
nasty.

I wonder what some GNers who ‘lurk’ (their word, not mine) think about some of these taunting posters?

I sometimes think you glum buckets won’t be happy unless your direst predictions come to fruition.

Sad when you think about it.

I’m not stupid. I don’t think I think there won’t be problems.

But in a measured and pragmatic way I do think our government will work it’s way through them, sort them out and continue to negotiate on our behalf.

What I’ve posted is the report produced by the government ug

It isn’t mean spirited or nasty. It simply is what it is.

If you mean that you don’t agree with the report, then say so, but that would be a brave or foolish thing to say, as I would expect you to put an alternative and robust argument.

What's with this glum bucket thing?
Nobody wants to see themselves, friends of family or wider community in a bad position.

Some people are genuinely fearful.

Please WWmark2 don’t be disingenuous.
You know I don’t mean your factual posts.

There is a pervasive, soul sapping contingency who are determined to bait Leave voting GNers.

I think it bring them joy.

It does feel that those who voted remain are "ganging up" on those who voted leave.

It is the MPs who have created this state of affairs, they decided on a "once in a lifetime referendum ", they stated that the results of the "advisory" referendum would be acted upon, they voted for Article 50.

It's there "mess" to sort out, it is what they are paid to do....

apologise "there" obviously should be their.

Lessismore: Nobody wants to see themselves, friends of family or wider community in a bad position.

Most decent people would not. Others will see it as 'too bad'.

growstuff: Maybe one of those who seems to think there won't be any problems with anything, could make some kind of guarantee from their insider knowledge.

Well, growstuff, I think you'll find that the word 'guarantee' has rather lost its meaning.
I, and all EU nationals, had this guarantee from Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Priti Patel not so long ago: "There will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully in residence in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom”. It didn't take them long to break that promise.

We've heard about Whitewavemark2's daughter who has lost her job because her employer is relocating to Europe and Varian's daughter who is very upset that she will lose her European citizenship. I have spoken to many young people who are equally distraught. Of course, we don't stop worrying about our children just because they are adult.

My situation is reverse. My children are now worried about me. There will be many other families in our situation.

Add to that the many British families in the UK worrying about their adult children/parents in Europe.

I guess we are all just collateral damage.

Hear, hear GG13!

Well I’ve looked at the post and couldn’t understand what you meant so assumed it was me you were talking about.

It seems there is a pretty even balance of mean spirit and nastiness.

Stone for stone, spear for spear.

Wang! bang! pop!???

Greta what changed? There will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully in residence in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom”. It didn't take them long to break that promise.

Boris only stated last week that E.U. nationals can all stay? Over 3.5 million people.

Reciprocal rights have still yet to be agreed by the E.U.

I can see ex pats must be feeling as though they are ‘collateral damage’ but not you/your family, surely?

I suppose that us remainers are a bit peeved because all this will happen and we didn’t want any if it, including being told your job has gone to Europe

Leavers did, so it is annoying and it really is time you began to take some responsibility for your decision.

After all you have always ensured us that you knew exactly what you were voting for. So thank you for causing my daughters job to go and the upset and hardship, just as my grandchildren are thinking of going to university and the resultant cost.

That why I am as mad as hell,

I am one who doesn't take any joy at all from reading government predictions of what is going to happen when we no longer trade within the umbrella of EU agreements.

These are not predictions made by spiteful remainers who want the talks to fail so that they can be proved right. They are made by experts - ^yes experts, those much insulted people who have spent their working lives amassing facts and data, collecting statistics, and projecting forwards from those facts and statistics, and then checking on how close they got with their projections. And they have produced their estimates for the government which has undertaken to deliver withdrawal from the EU, not for the opposition which is against it.

Neither do I get any joy from stating what my opinion is of the future of the country. If it should prove that Johnson, Farage and their Brexiteers are right in saying that there is a wonderful Shangri-la round the corner, where we will go from abject submission to glorious freedom and a place at the head of world trade, then I will be delighted to praise them for their delicate but powerful begotiation skills and ability to create thousands of new trade agreements where the old ones have been torn up.

But I don't think it is going to happen like that, and I am not enough of a two-faced crawler to pretend I do so as to appear to be be on what some seem to think is the "right" side. It is not "sides," it is using common sense.

Urmstongran, I have written about this on the Settled Status thread so I won't go over it again. Let me just explain this: EU nationals have to apply for settled status. So how can it be automatic? The application can be denied. The initial process may seem like a formality for some but that is only the beginning. For the rest of my life in the UK (if I decide to stay) I will have to keep updating my details on the database every time a change occur and certainly every time I renew my passport. If I forget, and I like everybody else will get older, this would mean my status is invalid. Also, my children may have to keep an eye on me to make sure I don 't forget.

Pretty similar for us now with property in Spain Greta.

In Spain, we have to have an NIE number and keep updating the empadronimente at the town hall and the bank. The price we pay for being in another country even while still in the EU. And of course one we consider to be worth doing otherwise we’d leave.....

GG13 your comment ^It does feel that those who voted remain are "ganging up" on those who voted leave^ is a bit unfair. Nobody is 'ganging up' on anybody else, it may seem a bit overwhelming though as the truth outweighs the 'let's just wait and trust in our wonderful government' vibe which is coming from the Brexiteers. For goodness sake, if you voted to leave, at least own it, the rest of us have to try and salvage something from the mess you landed us in. If the truth hurts, so be it.

Pantglas1:
Pretty similar for us now with property in Spain Greta.

Ah, therein lies the difference.
I have had most of my life and work here (arrived in 1971). In 1975 I had a letter from the Home Office: ”You are free now to remain permanently in the United Kingdom”. I took that to be a guarantee. And now Boris Johnson's 'guarantee': ”EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom”.
Perhaps I just don't understand the words 'permanently' and 'automatically'.

Great, my French friend in the UK is nearly 80- married to A British man nearly 25 years ago and been widowed for 4 years. She has no internet, and is severaly disabled after several bad falls and broken femurs, and severe osteoporosis. She has NO family in the UK. Her friends had to really insist that she had to register, and had to do all the admin with her due to the above. It is so stressful at a time when her recent disability, including now advanced glaucauma- is so difficult already to cope with.

Have you worked and lived in Spain as your main home, Pantglasl? If not, I don't see how your situation is in any way similar.

Is Johnson going to change the system for EU citizens before 31 October? My friend's Danish mother, who has lived in the UK with her British husband for over 40 years, has had all sorts of hassle (and expense) claiming her right to stay indefinitely.

GillT57, I have never denied the fact that I, my AC, their partners, and my husband voted to leave.

I was more than happy when it was the EEC, but was not comfortable with the way the EU is heading towards the Federal States of Europe.

The 2 parliaments and the endless expense accounts of not only the MEPs but the Civil Servants is such a waste of money.

The incoming leader of the EU is already talking about cancelling the vetoes of individual members in matters concerning tax, defence and climate change, how is that democratic.

There is a video of Angela Merkel addressing the European Parliament stating that the EU is working towards an European Army. Why? when our respective armies already have joint exercises, and can be aligned under NATO? More wasted money!!

We’ll see how wasted the money would have been if we leave the EU and our armed forces are called to action. Cut to the bone and under resourced, nobody in the military or recently retired believes we now have the capacity to defend ourselves.

I’m happy to abide by whatever rules any country that I live/holiday/work in choose to apply.

I tend not to make mountains out of molehills which is why I got my driving ID permit to drive in Spain before end of March in case brexit happened.

Shoequeen53 Our AC is a serving Officer in the U.K. Army, I really wouldn't underestimate their capabilities, modern warfare has evolved from WW2.