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People still think EU nstionals are being treated fairly in the UK?

(43 Posts)
notanan2 Mon 05-Aug-19 12:20:33

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/05/surge-in-eu-citizens-unfairly-refused-access-to-universal-credit

EllanVannin Mon 05-Aug-19 13:06:47

Universal Credit is an unfair method anyway, no thanks to the idiot who thought that one up.

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 13:27:03

Why?

It's actually much better than the systems it replaced - in theory. However, there are still anomalies and the biggest problem is that it's underfunded.

It's not the system itself which is unfair, but the way it's being implemented.

EllanVannin Mon 05-Aug-19 13:34:15

Growstuff so far as I've read about it people have had to wait weeks for payments, which has a terrible knock-on effect like missed rent leading to the homelessness that we see now, as well as other outstanding bills.
The " giro " was at least a regular payment which people could budget with and rent money was taken at source so that landlords were sure of receiving it.

EllanVannin Mon 05-Aug-19 13:35:37

I doubt the giro payment was any more expensive to implement than the shambles of UC.

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 13:43:40

Do you have first hand experience/knowledge of UC? Did you read what I actually wrote?

Repeat - the theory is actually fairer, but the implementation (eg. way payments are made, interpretation by JobCentre staff, etc) is problematic.

Staff are discriminating against EU citizens, either because they've been given orders or they're just not very bright. You choose!

EllanVannin Mon 05-Aug-19 13:48:40

No I have no experience of UC, only what I've read.

I blame JobCentre staff. Under-trained as are many in todays workplaces.

love0c Mon 05-Aug-19 13:50:48

It is unfair on many levels. A childminder we know has cut down to three days from five. She is now £250 per month better off?!?!

Daisymae Mon 05-Aug-19 14:14:07

I did read the article this morning and found it hard to generate much sympathy. One woman had been here for 13 years, studied for a degree, had income support and a chilf, then had to wait for universal credit while she was getting her business off the ground with help from the job centre. Could not help but compare with people I know who just work. And pay tax. Sure that these people are entitled, they know their way around the system.

jura2 Mon 05-Aug-19 17:49:58

here we go again - someone finds ONE example - to attempt to stop the conversation in its tracks.

So here goes, t'other way - there are many Brits taking the *iss out of the countries they emigrated to- yes there are people who do take advantage of any system, sadly. But the topic is so much wider than a few examples.

I know Brits here who after working for a couple of years are now getting unemployment benefits at 80% of salary, for two years- and getting trained and getting free intensive language courses too. And they are just using their entitlement as part of FMOP - and quite rightly so too.

jura2 Mon 05-Aug-19 17:50:59

oh, and getting help and support to get start-ups off the ground too.

Day6 Mon 05-Aug-19 18:10:48

Well the EU citizens I know say they'd never go back to their homelands after experiencing life in the UK. One young woman says she cannot believe people get paid so much for not working, or for even slacking off at work, having Fridays off, and flexi-time etc. She thinks its wonderful and she loves the fact she gets benefits now she's a mother.

And this "found it hard to generate much sympathy. One woman had been here for 13 years, studied for a degree, had income support and a child, then had to wait for universal credit while she was getting her business off the ground with help from the job centre"

Her move to the UK has been absolutely miserable, hasn't it? A degree and a start-up business, plus benefits. All in 13 years. We really are giving EU residents a dreadful time.

She needs proof of residence via papers and most people wanting benefits have to supply this evidence. As a British tax payer I am glad the system is rigorous. It seems she got a bank loan and has a parent who has flown over from Poland to help out. She will get thousands of pounds in back payments if/when her case is sorted out.

Yes, being broke, without money is miserable and frightening (been there) and having to wait for benefits can create dreadful problems. I understand that and I understand the rolling out of UC has been very hit and miss. It is a better system though.

Why do some of us (and Guardian writers) have to see the UK as a bad - nay, dreadful - mean place?

jura2 Mon 05-Aug-19 19:05:25

Day6 : 'Why do some of us (and Guardian writers) have to see the UK as a bad - nay, dreadful - mean place?'

who, where where?

Back to the title please. EU expats in other parts of the EU, and Switzerland, are treated very well and are entilted to benefits, and unemployment + training (as said, here 80% of salary if children, or 70% without - much much higher than in the UK btw)- so it has to go both ways. There are many many more British expats in the EU than t'other way round. Fact.

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 19:51:17

What benefits does she get as a mother?

Chewbacca Mon 05-Aug-19 20:09:04

Child benefit perhaps?

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 20:12:34

Wow! That's not going to make her rich.

notanan2 Mon 05-Aug-19 20:24:31

Tax credits and child tax credits ARE for people who work hard hmm and are now part of Universal credit

SueDonim Mon 05-Aug-19 20:26:15

Jura2 quote 'There are many many more British expats in the EU than t'other way round. Fact.'

Not according to the BBC. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36745584 This is from 2016 but I don't suppose figures have changed that much since then.

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 20:58:02

Where does it state that as policy, notanan? Child tax credits always were for the unemployed and employed.

I've never seen any documentation differentiation between those who work hard and those who don't work hard.

Who says the EU citizens who have been denied UC haven't worked hard at some time?

The latest changes to working tax credits/UC mean that almost nobody is eligible for them anyway.

notanan2 Mon 05-Aug-19 21:01:54

This is getting of the point. The point is not about benefits. The point is that EU nationals with settled status are not getting treated fairly /well.

Not about the MYTH that the UK is neither unique OR particularly comparatively "generous" when it comes to welfare. There are EU citizens who have moved here from places with more generous welfare (which Brits benefit from) but that is not the point the point is they have settled status and are ENTITLED but the "hostile environment" treats them like they just rocked up despite paying into the system and following the rules.

notanan2 Mon 05-Aug-19 21:03:17

Where does it state that as policy, notanan? Child tax credits always were for the unemployed and employed.

You cannot claim full child tax credits without being IN work.

notanan2 Mon 05-Aug-19 21:04:25

The childcare element of child tax credits is only for workers. Without it you can onlu claim partial child tax credits not all elements.

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 21:09:51

Parents don't need childcare if they're not in work.

Just as an aside:

EU nationals of working age are more likely to be in work than UK nationals and non-EU citizens. About 83% of working age EU citizens in the UK are in work, compared to around 76% of UK nationals and 66% of people from outside the EU.

fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

The reason I asked was because a poster seemed to think that some EU national she knew thought she was rolling in it now she's a mother in the UK. My experience and knowledge of the availability of benefits (especially over the last few years) is somewhat different.

growstuff Mon 05-Aug-19 21:10:48

I agree that it's a myth when it comes to the generosity of UK benefits.

notanan2 Mon 05-Aug-19 21:17:45

Point being that Universal credit not an "unemployment benefit" it covers all sorts and

B. Uk tax payers who have a right to settle here and "pay in" have as much right to claim it as anyone else!

GNers keep posting that EU citizens will be "fine" but its not true