Does anyone know what Boris intends to do about the Irish border if he gets his no deal?

Thank you for your patronising advice Lessismore. Perhaps you didn't realise that NI is part of UK where the native language is English?

Good heavens!!

I haven't been following this thread all that closely so on a re-read this came as quite a shock!

The only country in the UK, kircubbin, where English is the 'native language' is England, for heaven's sake. (And the Cornish might question that, even )

[Shakes head in disbelief]

In my opinion the OP will be totally immaterial by 31 Oct. as I truly believe that Cummings intends to no deal and win the GE.

Both I think at the moment highly likely.

Information re freedom of movement from Eire

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_uk.html#l6d872

Freedom of movement as allowed by the CTA isn't the problem here, Joelsnan. It's the movement of goods. If we become a Third Country goods cannot move freely between the UK and the EU. There are particular problems with the movement of animal and plant products.

Oh I understand you very well.

MaizieD
I understand that, but all the hype and fear seems to be around what people perceive to be the imposition of borders preventing the free movement of people and this would give rise to conflict. This is obviously not the case and as you say it only relates to goods. But, as NI and Eire have always maintained an ‘invisible border’ in terms of currency, VAT, governance etc. How is this managed?

I think it was the BBC which produced a video on this a few weeks ago. The problem seems to be for farmers on either side of the border. At the moment, the border is almost non-existent. They can take cattle and the milk produced across the border a number of times before whatever is produced finally goes to market. When NI leaves the customs union and single market, prices will have to increase to cover tariffs. From memory, the WTO tariff on dairy produce is currently 40%, so a number of farmers on both sides of the border will no longer be able to afford to operate.

It would appear that Republican groups are being opportunistic as a result of the uncertainty. I'm not defending them, but it's a reality. It would appear that peace in Ireland is still very fragile and it won't take much to light the tinderbox. History tells us that people who are disgruntled because they've lost their jobs and livelihoods are more likely to become involved in political extremism.

I honestly don't think Johnson or many mainland politicians really understand the complexities and nuances of Ireland. I can't be the only one who remembers thinking that the Troubles would never end. It's a miracle that we've had a couple of decades of relative calm and I really don't want a return to the bad old days.

PS. I've been trying to link (but couldn't) to Jacob Rees Mogg showing how utterly clueless the Conservatives are about the situation. He wants to return to the checks which were carried out during the Troubles, presumably with the heavy army and police presence (and expense) to carry out the checks. He doesn't seem to have any idea how much resentment and provocation that would cause.

I watched that programme, growstuff.
I thought it seemed fairly unbiased, compared with the usual BBC standard.
There was a lot about cross channel transport of goods as well.

I couldn't find a link to it, but from memory, I agree with you. It was factual, unsensational and I learnt a lot about the issues.

growstuff

"annepl, If you'd read and understood my post properly in the first place, nobody would have gone running to teacher and POGS' post wouldn't have had to be removed."
----

As you brought my name back into it.

Anybody who read your post would have clearly understood your opinion, you pulled no punches did you.

Your post was removed because of it's content, my post was removed because it quoted your words which GNHQ felt worthy of deletion. There is a distinction as to why our posts were deleted to those who understand how deletions have a different comment from GNHQ.

As for your post in response to mine Sat 31-Aug-19 11:21:47 where you say " What the heck are you going on about POGS?" all I can say is if you don't understand my point re the perception of bigotry then it would be a waste of time explaining.

My post was misunderstood. End of. GNHQ knows exactly what I think.

Oh I'm sure they do!

A leaked report shows there is no deliverable alternative to the backstop.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/irish-border-after-brexit-all-ideas-beset-by-issues

Cummings has no plan for an alternative backstop, nor a re-hashed WA.

The plan isn’t Brexit it’s to get Johnson in as leader of a hard right government. Moderate Tories are already on warning.

Cummings' objective is to destroy the very fabric of our constitutional system, as we know it. Hence, the drip drip attacks on the civil and diplomatic services and the legal system. The media have to be complicit, which they are, and votes have to be bought (and promises abandoned when those votes have been "cashed in").

Cummings in no genius. He's read game theory and mugged up on political strategists, but this is classic stuff. Read up about the French revolutionaries, Leninism, Nazism, etc. What he's done is put all that in a 21st century context, using the tools available now, in the same way Trump (Bannon) and some other governments have done.

Has anybody noticed how quiet Theresa May has been? I think history will treat her more kindly than her contemporaries have done. I hope she's enjoying her "retirement" to the back benches.

This a quote from researchbriefings.parliament.uk

‘....The Belfast Agreement, more often called the Good Friday Agreement, contains within it a commitment by the British and Irish governments to allow the people of Northern Ireland to identify and be accepted as Irish, British, or both, and a right to hold both British and Irish citizenship. This part of the Agreement is often known as the ‘birthright protection’.
The Good Friday Agreement is an international treaty, so both the UK and Irish governments are required under international law to uphold the commitments they made in the Agreement....’
What is Boris’ plan for this? What the GFA promises to both sides is for NI and SI citizens to hold either/or/both passports.

What do you need to do to be counted as Northern Irish?

Could this be a loophole to get EU citizenship by opting for Irish citizenship as well as British?

Could this mean a boom in British babies being born in Northern Ireland, so that they can in the future opt to be Irish and, therefore, EU citizens?

Growstuff, it is part of the GFA so I assume there are citizens now who live in NI but have opted to hold either a U.K.EU passport; a Rep of Ireland EU passport or both. So my question is citizens who have opted to hold a RoI/EU passport but live in NI will have a different status to those who don’t. Entitled to EU healthcare, voting rights in EU elections, the right to live, study and work in the EU. In SI those who have opted for UKEU Passport the reverse will be the case. In the event of no deal what will be their status in the place where they live? How can it be resolved without upsetting the GFA?

We got our RoI passports years ago thankfully. ?

Good for you! Both I and H have Irish grandparents/grgndparents but they left for Liverpool too long ago I think!☹️

This is a very good map and explanatory article about the Irish border and movements across it:

www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/sep/02/a-typical-hour-in-the-life-of-the-irish-border

It may be possible to get an Irish passport on the basis of Irish grandparents. www.irishcentral.com/travel/best-of-ireland/how-to-get-an-irish-passport
This site seems to be aimed at US but I assume info is valid. Grandparent must have been alive and still Irish citizen when you were born, even if they weren’t living in Ireland.
www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/citizenship-gparents-born-ireland

I looked it up too. If you are born in Northern Ireland, you can opt for a British, Irish or both passports. An Irish passport holder will still be in the EU and enjoy all the benefits of FoM. So if you want your unborn child to have the benefits of the EU and you hold a British passport, all you have to do is make sure the baby is born in NI and has one British or EU parent.

In NI, there are large areas, particularly near the border, where more residents hold Irish passports than British ones.

In future, some NI residents will have FoM within Europe whereas other won't. Hmmm! It gets complicated.

I believe there was a huge rise in applications for Irish passports when Brexit was first announced. I just clicked on the link because of GGP born in Ireland, but my parents had to register between 1956 and 1986. Unfortunately my GM was born in England

Growstuff that is exactly my point. Birthright Protection under the GFA goes both ways. So there could be arguably people who have UK/EU passports living in RoI who will have non of the benefits after Brexit. The GFA was written with an understanding that U.K. would always be in the EU.