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NO DEAL is the only way. The EU 'wrote' the WA Agreement.

(306 Posts)
Day6 Sun 01-Sept-19 17:11:59

and it ties us to the EU indefinitely.

The Irish backstop could be the least of our worries.

May's WA must be rejected completely. It is an incredibly complicated document leaving hardly a subject not covered, and everything in it has been designed to be beneficial to the EU.

I doubt if any MP has read it from cover to cover. Nearly every paragraph is cross-referenced to a Treaty, Regulation or Directive, and each one has to be looked up, read and understood before moving on. It takes hours.

So says John Ashworth in his article This EU-written Withdrawal Agreement is toxic from start to finish

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/this-eu-written-withdrawal-agreement-is-toxic-from-start-to-finish/

It is a very revealing article, written by someone who has made an effort to link the words to the many treaties, acts and sub-paragraphs which determine the UK's role after a decidedly dodgy exit (or non-exit as it transpires) from the EU.

It is very worrying.

He concludes

During any transition period, we would not be classified as a ‘third country’, so although technically one could claim that we had left the EU, in practical terms, we *wouldn’t have done so – rather the opposite*

We would effectively be controlled by the EU to such a degree that we might just as well shut our Parliament down

We would finally become a ‘third country’ on 1 January 2023, as it is doubtful that the EU would consider an extension other than on the previous transition terms, which would essentially mean that we would still not have left the EU in any meaningful way

We would still be paying our ongoing fees, at full rate, to the EU. The EU would still control our fisheries and our armed forces and we would still be subject to the European Court of Justice, with our Parliament still essentially sidelined. No one in their right minds could want us to be in such a situation

We do not want Brexit in name only (BRINO) which is what the WA will give us, if our only request is the dropping of the backstop.

Boris, must be careful. May's WA is a non-starter. Farage, in waiting, understands that the WA has to be rejected - in full.

lemongrove Thu 05-Sept-19 19:32:35

What’s your view on what jura2 wrote then less?

Lessismore Thu 05-Sept-19 20:31:21

My view is that suggesting posters change their names to those of guards in Nazi extermination Camp is a low blow.

lemongrove Thu 05-Sept-19 20:39:23

But what is your view of what jura2 actually wrote?
What, no answers?

Joelsnan Thu 05-Sept-19 20:40:44

Lessismore
So, Jura2s comment which was concurred by MaizieD is not a low blow then?
Are you also happy for leave voters to be denied treatment, medication and transplants, just because of their voting record as you feel unable to criticise them.
Phew, there are no words...!

Lessismore Thu 05-Sept-19 20:42:11

No, I am not happy, I didn't say that.

lemongrove Thu 05-Sept-19 20:49:58

Joelsnan it seems ( fortunately) that nobody else is coming forward to endorse jura2 and her outrageous views.
That’s a relief!

Joelsnan Thu 05-Sept-19 21:05:40

Lemongrove
Yes, it is a relief. I really found it quite distressing that people can think so.

Firecracker123 Fri 06-Sept-19 07:46:13

I agree ?

Anja Fri 06-Sept-19 08:12:24

This is really the worst of GN.

Urmstongran Fri 06-Sept-19 09:17:16

A truly nasty comment from jura2 it just beggars belief.

Anja Fri 06-Sept-19 09:35:37

Certainly an unpleasant suggestion I agree, but then everybody pitches in and .....??

Alexa Fri 06-Sept-19 10:17:19

Jura wrote:

"Perhaps we should have a register, so that the ones who voted Leave and would still want to do so, even though they now know the consequences- will be the ones to go without the drugs and treatments if and when they require them."

I agree on the principle. In practice there are a lot of stupid, misinformed, or otherwise intransigent people who we cannot as a matter or conscience allow to suffer for their folly .

Anja Fri 06-Sept-19 13:09:08

Some would certainly be the first to squeal were they to suffer the consequences of their own actions.

Day6 Fri 06-Sept-19 13:49:47

In practice there are a lot of stupid, misinformed, or otherwise intransigent people..

Alexa's view of Leavers.

Nice.

And really, she concludes, we OUGHT to suffer, but being better than that, she'll allow people who voted differently from her medical treatment if we need it.

You are too kind. hmm

Wow, Alexa you just created a two-tier system of humans there, one more worthy than the other. The hatred runs deep, doesn't it?

growstuff Fri 06-Sept-19 13:50:45

Chill, Anja! Rumour has it that the government has made contingency plans and ordered extra body bags. I hope to goodness that is one rumour which isn't true.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 06-Sept-19 14:01:38

Day6, I think some of those who voted remain have sunk to an all time low.

Should leave voters be tattooed so all can show their contempt?

I think I shall take my leave of the political threads.

Firecracker123 Fri 06-Sept-19 14:28:45

Yes Day 6 some very nasty Remainers on GN at the moment full of hate and vitriol.

Day6 Fri 06-Sept-19 14:34:45

I think I shall take my leave of the political threads

I have been saying this for a while GrannyGravy.

I get the feeling some Remain posters, full of hatred, would happily evict us Leavers.

Day6 Fri 06-Sept-19 14:56:37

our parliament wil look for a LONG delay from Brussels but still not enough time to change the appalling WA, which Parliament has already rejected three times.

One would conclude we want a DIFFERENT WA, which the EU is not prepared to discuss, even though Remain MPs think differently.

We cannot and should not accept May's deal with the EU. It does not benefit us. It keeps us in EU handcuffs. We might as well scrap Brexit now, (which is what Remainer MPs want).

Look at this bit, from the article in the OP.

Our poor fishermen and the fishing industry must be aware of this section of the WA, one would hope. I'd be very surprised if anyone involved in the UK fishing industry voted Remain.

Article 130 of the Withdrawal Agreement discusses specific arrangements relating to fishing opportunities

It contains four paragraphs which require the reader to cross reference to articles 43(3) TEU and point (b) of Article 129(2)

I won’t go into all the details, but suffice it to say that these few paragraphs give the EU everything it requires – in other words, access to our waters under the same terms as when we were a member state

The WA is not acceptable, we cannot get another one, so we either cave in or go for No Deal. Every MP knows this, so why is Parliament keeping us hanging on, and having us fork out billions of tax payers money at the same time?

Remain MPs and those who stall are betraying the UK.

We don't need any more time to say NO to this, do we?

lemongrove Fri 06-Sept-19 15:03:21

It’s amazing isn’t it, that what jura2 wrote about denying medical treatment to Leavers,( and endorsed more or less just now by Alexa as well) and even Anja thinks that nobody should ‘pitch in’ to say how abhorrent it is, probably think of their comments as liberal, when in fact they are anything but!
Unbelievable.

lemongrove Fri 06-Sept-19 15:07:21

No, we don’t need even another few days, do we?
There have been three years and it still isn’t done, nor is it right.
We now have the even more ludicrous situation of not having a deal that MPs will vote for, and of not having a no-deal to fall back on either.Limbo......indefinitely.

maddyone Fri 06-Sept-19 15:10:46

Does the government provide body bags? I thought it was the undertaker who provided the body bag!

I keep saying I’ll keep off the Brexit threads, but I do peep sometimes. I think I wish I hadn’t at this thread, it’s unbelievably nasty. Deny leave voters medicines! What kind of warped mind comes up with a proposal like that. It sounds like the most extreme type of dictatorship imaginable, you’ll only get the medicine if you agree with and support me! Unbelievable!

maddyone Fri 06-Sept-19 15:11:01

Bravo Day6.

humptydumpty Fri 06-Sept-19 15:11:37

Scrap Article 50 and have a second, properly structured referendum. If the vote is still Leave, form a cross-party committee of MPs and other stakeholders to start again.

Day6 Fri 06-Sept-19 18:09:38

I keep saying I’ll keep off the Brexit threads, but I do peep sometimes.

We are as bad as each other maddy. grin

I tell myself frequently that it really isn't worth the effort (or abuse) as our words change nothing.

What will be, will be, but if Remainer MPs tie us to the EU indefinitely, as they seem to be doing, then the public deserve a general election to get rid of them.

Is that the plan do you think, to delay, time and time again and resist an election, so people get so fed up they leave them to their Remainer totalitarian skulduggery?