The slippery slope - dictatorship anyone?

Hi GrannyGravy While others are getting there undies in a twist over Boris let me congratulate you over the birth of your grandson .

You have a point, but it's not really relevant to the behaviour in the HoC yesterday.

sarahellenwhitney I expect there are threads in Chat for that kind of thing. Leave those who care to get their knickers in a twist!

Sorry, on the birth.

Like it or not the majority of the votes in 2016 were to leave the EU

And now the majority want to stay (if the opinion polls are to be believed). Perhaps her form of democracy - ie recognising that change and putting the vote back to the people - just doesn't chime with yours?

grow your comment on the bigger picture is spot on.

Missdeke, I refer you to my response upthread to JohnD at 11.18.

Growstuff
Oh dear, how sad that amongst the doom and gloom just one moment can't be found to offer our congratulations.

I don't think dictators actually start out with the thought, "I think I shall start working towards a dictatorship tomorrow! How shall I set about it? I know, at first I will . . ."

What probably happens is that they see a "gap in the market" that they feel they could fill. There may be a need for changes in the country, or a key post falls vacant, or they have novel ideas which are not being accepted by traditional routes.

So they campaign for what they want, first at a low level then getting higher and higher as they persuade others to join them, back them for a political position, lobby for the changes they would like and so on.

If there is something that a disillusioned population latches onto, a keen orator with powers of persuasion can rise on a tide of fervour to dizzy heights. Opposition is dismissed as "enemies of the people" and when the ambitious climber has some power, he replaces all the officials he can with others who sympathise with his cause and back his legislation and his other appointments, while those who resist are sidelined, or their reputations blackened by a servile or partisan press.

Gradually the "champion of the people against the establishment" becomes the establishment himself, but with a background of ruthlessness, dirty work, and disdain for the humdrum processes of democracy that he has defeated.

In a genuine democracy where everyone contributes a little to governing, the job of every member is to be alert for the beginnings of such an nsidious rise. It is often said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. If we abdicate the use of vigilance, we will eventuallt pay the price.

If you really want to offer congratulations and share the joy it might be better to start a separate thread where more people will see it, as opposed to prefacing it with a comment about twisted undies and burying it in a thread about Brexit that has a limited audience

Watch the tactic- he totally ignores the question and goes on the rampage. So, what was the answer do you think? And should we allow our Government to abuse their power to indoctrinate our school children and approving his policies? This is sick and so so wrong:

www.facebook.com/TheDailyPolitik/videos/666215250552426/

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Standard tactic when in the wrong, Jura - ignore the question and attack the questioner.

Thank you

www.facebook.com/BBCPolitics/videos/519207188828521/

for saying what all decent people feel at the moment, whatever their view on Brexit. I am sure that many Conservatives feel just the same too.

Elegran has spoken well and with sense in her posts. Boris has never had anyone say no to him, that was how he was brought up with a strong sense of entitlement.

He doesn't answer questions, he just slings insult left right and centre and try to bulldoze everyone out of the way. Bribing the people of the country with I will do this that and the other, can you trust him? No. He is displaying all the makings of dictator and we should be afraid.

JC has come out well in all this speaking well and acting in a professional way. He would certainly could prove to be a far better person to lead this country with his calm and measured way than the rampaging dictator.

In reply to the matter of casting aspersions on the Supreme Court - may I say that now that unelected judges are making political decisions, when can I expect to exercise my right to vote for them? I can only conclude that the highest court in the land can no longer be trusted to be impartial observers of political decisions.

montymops - they are not elected so they can be totally independent and impartial.

Could you please make up your mind- was this decision by the Judges re our Sovereign constitution and basic Democratic principles of Parliamentary Democracy - or just about Brexit and Johnson?

It's those who want one thing against those who want another, always has been in Parliament. Granted the rhetoric yesterday was appalling to see but I wonder if that kind of behaviour was the norm at some time in history and we have become so accustomed to all the politeness expected nowadays in many aspects of our lives. Anyone seen a MD, CE, when things aren't going well in a company, that is something to watch!

Unelected judges didn't make political decisions.

Proroguing Parliament wasn't political. Johnson himself said as much, so it must be true.

BTW montypops So good of you to join GN to make your contribution.

Montymops, if you either read or listen to the entirety of Lady Hale's ruling, you will realise that it was not a political judgment, any more than it would have been if the Supreme Court had ruled in favour of Johnson. The ruling was on points of law, evidence and precedent.

I think that it would be a dangerous route to go down to have politically appointed judges.

SirChenjin, this thread was not about Brexit. It was about the importance of our elected representatives, particularly the Prime Minister, obeying the law.

Funny how Boris shot himself in the foot during his US visit. After insisting that proroguing Parliament had NOTHING to do with Brexit, he then made a speech where he accused those who brought the court action of trying to stop Brexit. Clearly he couldn't quite join the dots ...

Worth listening to Dr David Starkey, the well known historian.........on......

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/dr-david-starkey-brutal-analysis-on-supreme-court/

Why didn't Mr Speaker call Order? Was he even there?
Oh, sorry, of course, it was the Tories who were misbehaving so he let them carry on with a nod and a wink to the Left!

Dictators don't offer general elections to the populace.

It is a sweeping generalisation to say that ALL MPs are as bad as each other, are only in it for their own gain, and do not have their constituents at heart. Jess Phillips is a Birmingham MP (not mine, but I live in Birmingham). She is the most passionate, principled and hardworking constituency MP, certainly not in it for herself. Her stance on language, death/rape threats is to publicly condemn, hence her question this morning. There are many others like her. There are also many who are not (including mine, unfortunately) as we are seeing in the HoC at the moment.