The slippery slope - dictatorship anyone?

Lemongrove If you are surprised at me going down the road I have, could you not take that as an indication of just how strongly I feel about the present situation, and believe that to show that it is potentially far more serious than some people think?

I am not envisaging gas chambers and goose-step marches, but anything that allows riots in Parliament, lets the executive stir up hatred against sections of the population, or lets the executive's leader to flout the rule of law and truth in his actions is a brick in the foundation of a dictatorship.

My husband spent a long time in the military and during this period (and I think still now) any member of the Armed Forces who were discovered 'misusing taxpayers money' were court marshalled. My question is, how much of taxpayers money has been misused so far (and continues) on this fiasco.

Having been asked to moderate his language- instead of apologising, he just goes on and repeats

www.facebook.com/FemiSorry/videos/2543152312420128/

if you want to be safe, do as I say (or else) this is sick, this is wrong - and don't you dare say that anone concerned about this, is being 'hysterical' as that is lowest of the low, and a despicable trick

One of the most difficult things to counter is that so many people just don't know anything about the mechanisms by which our country is governed. That should be explained (neutrally!!!) in schools - without showing a party political broadcast to primary pupils.

The following is a post by a well known poster on our sister forum. I have started a thread with this but it is worth posting it on here as well

This summation is both well argued and intelligent.

Report RedToothBrush Thu 26-Sep-19 07:25:16
The anger and language are getting more shocking, but expect more of the same and increasing as our politicians refuse to take the lead and our democratic institutions are torn apart by legal action.

The legal action was right to defend the rule of law. Its the last line of defence of the people. The courts including the ECHR defend our rights.

This also needs to be seen in context and outside of Brexit.

It needs to be seen in context with how May abused the law and disenfranchised many from their right whilst she was at the home office (and after she left by continuing cases after she left) in a manner which is hard to see as anything less than merely put of pure spite.

May deliberately tried to get around the rule of law, knowing that many of her victims would never be able to seek justice or if they did it would be retrospectively after she had already abused the power of the state, achieved her goal of removing foreign nationals and denied them their rights.

Leave.EU and many on the hard right of the Tory party have long had their eyes on human rights as the power of the courts is one thing that stops the state abusing power. They have already sought to undermine the justice system via cuts to legal aid etc. Many no longer have equal access to justice as a result. It leaves the vulnerable to abuses of power from above.

May continued this as PM by trying to trigger A50 without scrutiny.

But it goes beyond this too.

It's in all those government contracts with businesses which we can not Freedom of Information request and therefore scrutinise. This is widespread at local council level. Where is all our money going, and to whom?

Where is the local government accountability?

It's in the abolition of the audit office.

It's a drip drip of the removal of checks and balances.

Johnson is merely the result of the erosion of all these things and no one standing up and questioning what is more or less corruption - even if it happens to be legal.

It's like what Trump is doing in plain sight. Milking the systems for his own financial benefit. We know and understand the issue of breaking the US constitution with emoluments

The desire for politicians to look for loopholes to get around the system is regarded as legitimate. So legitimate that its resulted in the opposition having to resort to it, in order to try and halt no deal.

Their actions in doing this are a symptom of the problems we have from the erosion of democracy rather than a cause of it.

These things did not start under the coalition government either. You can clearly trace them back to Blair. PFI was all about essentially circumnavigating around the system of transparency and checks and balances to make the books look like we weren't borrowing as much as a nation. Frankly it'd cost us less to just let the state borrow the money.

All these things are connected and we didn't fully understand what we were doing or the price it was costing us.

It will take those who were involved and made those errors to acknowledge them to start to reverse things. There are many whose faith in politicians is zero because they know and understand these things along the road. Farage did too and he's kept his power dry understanding this anger and how he could harness it.

Johnson was an opportunists but Farage has long seen this coming and how he can exploit it.

Remember this does not end with Johnson.”

I've read about this party political broadcast in primary school. Does anybody have a link to it? On the face of it, it sounds horrifying.

I agree that teaching about the British constitution should be a compulsory part of the curriculum.

I was SO shocked, I turned off the TV. I couldn't help noticing the difference between the Cons side - laughing, smug, bluster; no sense of being accountable; and the Opposition - who were passionate about the wrongs being done, the threats to MPs and the need to stop all this division. I don't know what's happened to the Tories - they used to be a One Nation party but they're morphing into a cross between the Brexit Party and the BNP. I'm very worried.

"The road to Auschwitz was built by hate, but paved with indifference."

Let us never be indifferent!

Jess Philips making a statement on the hate strategy.

Incitement to hatred and incitement to violence are the two things that won't go out of my head. Isn't it illegal to broadcast such things?

I too, like some other posters see this as a very dangerous time.

How can we expect our children to practice respect when those in parliament behave in this appalling fashion. I believe it’s time for mud slinging and confrontational speech to be banned in our legislature. In the 21st century, surely we should have moved on from this disgraceful spectacle. TBH, this so called tradition is obsolete. A hangover of disgraceful public school behaviour.

More importantly, I too see parallels between the rise of Nazism and the manipulations of this current government leadership. For anyone who is interested, the total disarray of German democracy in the 1930s enabled Hitler to pass the Enabling Act, which allowed the government to make law without recourse to the Bundestag. It seems to me the Johnson et. al. were engaged in a similar activity. Thus in my belief, the Supreme Court was preventing a similar situation.

I’m pleased that the current government cannot force a general election. Their colleagues were the ones who introduced a fixed term parliament. I didn’t agree with this change but it is working in the favour of all the opposition parties at the moment.

I voted remain but would accept leaving with a deal. I cannot support no deal under any circumstances because of the damage that would be done to a huge number of the population.

I would support a government of national unity as it seems to me we have a national emergency whatever way we look at it.

Incitement to riot too. It seems pretty clear to me that lots of what we are hearing from the leader and his acolytes right now falls very firmly in that catagory

For all who keep posting about Nazi Germany...It won’t be forgotten, it isn’t forgotten and when it passes into ancient history no doubt it still won’t be forgotten.
What does need to be given a rest however, is posters on GN littering every thread with references to it, and how they see the present Conservative Government as somehow parallel with it. Johnson trying to force an election.....is that the action of a would be dictator? No! There is nothing to say that he wouldn't lose, or at any rate be returned with only a small majority.
The emotive language and behaviour around Brexit from all,
MPs and in the country reflects the shameful way in which Parliament, after having agreed the referendum, agreed to trigger article 50 has then gone on to do their level best to wriggle out of it.

Is the new mantra no longer' oh I am not racist but ...'

replaced by 'oh I am not violent but ...'

CarlyD7- thank you- and yes, there is a massive difference as you so rightly say:

'...the difference between the Cons side - laughing, smug, bluster; no sense of being accountable; and the Opposition - who were passionate about the wrongs being done, the threats to MPs and the need to stop all this division.'

I was poorly last night and didn't watch any TV...what station was it on and has anyone got a link to it please?

I watched on House of Commons live

oh and hope you feel better today x

Can’t see what all the fuss is about - silly MPs getting hot under the collar - I do not agree with the judgement of the Supreme Court either - I am not a particular fan of Boris- but how do we know the political sympathies of any of the judges? What motive can be attributed to Gina Miller and John Major? John Major supposedly prorogued Parliament to prevent questions about Cash for questions. What a hypocrite! Boris is an easy target because he’s a populist and flamboyant- how do we know what he said to the Queen - these MPs are behaving like hysterical children - it makes me wonder what quality of men and women we have got representing us - these fools must have crawled in under the EU umbrella where they didn’t have to make any major decisions- Neville Chamberlain prorogued Parliament for nearly 2 months just before the outbreak of WW2. Brexit is important- I am a Remainer but I believe in democracy- how this word is bandied about now - I don’t think people seem to know what it means! - the country voted to leave by a small majority and that is what we should do. Simples says the meerkat - well - ha ha to that -

Johnson doesn't care about the result of the election, only aout it successfully tying up time so that the subject of Brexit can no longer be discussed. He is devious. He is also stuck in the same mindset that he apparently had at school, when he was unwilling to accept criticism for not doing work that he was supposed to have completed - he doesn't like to be told that he is wrong.

Hysteria rules again I see. ‘Traumatised’?? What tosh. You’ll be traumatised if Corbyn gets in and you suddenly find this once great country transported back in time to East Germany before the wall came down. As Abraham Lincoln said “you don’t help the poor by destroying the rich”.

All this trouble because certain people are determined that Brexit won’t happen. I believe it will and there’ll be a new political order once it’s all done and dusted.

The Supreme Court judges are sworn to interpret and administer JUSTICE as it is defined by legislation and precedent, whatever their personal political views.

Casting aspersions on their impartiality is leading towards Herr Hitler's actions, when he fired all the justices (who were blocking him) and replaced them with Nazis. Then he made sure that laws were passed which made his actions legal.

Posters don't litter every thread with references to Nazi Germany, but it's very disturbing when some posters really don't understand - or choose not to see - the parallels.

In 1932/33, people in Germany couldn't look into the future. Hitler and the other Nazis didn't spell out what they intended. In fact, there are academics who have been through all Hitler's speeches to find clues, which should have been a warning. There aren't many. People were complacent and trusted the "strong" man whom they thought would lead them out of the national crisis.

People who ignore the parallels are as guilty as the government.

But … but … but Johnson claimed that prorogation wasn't political! How can a judgment about it be considered political?

Do the people saying they don't agree with the judgment have legal training?

tickingbird What kind of "new political order" to you envisage? That's exactly the kind of thing the Nazis said and neo-Nazis still say.

People need to be aware that this is about more than leaving the EU. There really are people who want a "new political order" and they see the EU as a barrier.

I was thoroughly ashamed of our parliament after yesterday's scenes, but I am absolutely incensed by Jo Swinson announcing that should she become Prime Minister she would revoke Article 50. I thought she was a Liberal Democrat, where in her announcement does democracy come in. Probably the most un-Democratic statement made. Like it or not the majority of the votes in 2016 were to leave the EU.