Why are "Leavers" so angry?

The patronising, bigoted tone of the OP trisher, growstuff et al astounds me, expressions such as those who voted to leave the EU 'can't even string together a coherent sentence', 'empty vessels' - really! How arrogant and presumptious!

On the other hand, Informative posts by joelsnam regarding EU policies and how they have affected her area, are measured and helpful.

NanaandGrammy asks why everyone is so angry. It is typical opinions by posters mentioned above who ridicule those who voted to leave the EU which angers us.

My personal reasons for voting to leave are varied. If we look at the EU, how many member states are prospering? Certainly not Greece or Italy, all have high debt and unemployment, even France has record unemployment, and they are one of the leading member states. Germany (the leading net contributor to the EU) is on the brink of recession. We are the second highest net contributor to the EU, costing £billiions each year, and although we receive EU initiatives, I don’t believe we get our money’s worth.

Although I don’t believe we will save the vast amounts of money postulated by hard brexiteers, we will definitely save huge amounts each year. Money which could be spent in so many ways to help our own nation. The NHS, schools, roads, which are currently filled with potholes – the list is endless!

The pound currency is another important factor I voted leave. Although currently it has devalued against the dollar and euro, it will eventually regain value, unlike the euro which has suffered various crises and will again. There is diplomatic pressure regarding the euro that in order to use the single market, all members will be forced to adopt the euro. The euro’s problems will continue until Europe has a fiscal union and proper European government, and so far there is no sign of that.

Outside of the EU common agricultural policy, we can take advantage of cheaper surplus foods across the globe. The same goes with other products, resulting in lower inflation and our money will go further. One of the worst things to happen since joining the common market (as it was called initially) was the sharp rise in food prices. And with the freedom to choose our suppliers, without agreement from 27 other member states, it should be much easier to do.

Although not against immigration per se, I do believe we need to control our borders. I live in an agricultural, salad growing area, and even before joining the common market, portuguese, spanish and other nationalities came across each summer to harvest the fields and greenhouses. They have always been welcomed. They picked the crops, returning home when the harvest was finished.

However, the EU policy of free movement has resulted in over 300,000 European workers arriving here each year. And with countries such as Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Turkey and Montenegro wishing to join the EU and head to the ‘richer’ countries, how can such a small island such as the UK possibly continue to sustain such huge numbers, which would increase with time. For example, France is twice as big as the UK, yet France has a population only 2.7 million higher than the UK.

Local green-belt land is already being taken for building, the loss to wildlife and climate change is enormous. And it’s not just in my area that housing is needed, there are housing shortages all over the country.

I hadn’t intended to add to this thread, but have decided to in order to reasonably explain some of my reasons for leaving the EU.

rosieroe

I agree, there are pros and cons to both.

However, most of those who comment on Brexit threads are remainers. For every one comment by the few leavers, it is questioned repeatedly, occasionally in a very derogative manner, by 3+ remainers.

3 onto 1 - naughty - give the lady a chance to reply.

However leavers appear to fight back and put up with the name calling and snide analogies.

Sadly WOODMOUSE there is a very good reason for this.

And it is simple, Leavers do not reply to any questions- or very rarely do. They comment, but do not give fact based evidence. Perhaps because when they do- some of us are aware that it is not the case, and reply with fact based evidence- which they take umbrage to.

Well said libra10 and in the first year or so many Leave voters came on here to say similar things, but over the last year in particular, they have grown weary of the constant demands by either old or new posters demanding reasons ( as if it was their right).
Believe it or not, some Remainers on GN are still discussing the legalities of the referendum and the percentages of voters in the referendum.....from 3 years ago!

libra10 you say The patronising, bigoted tone of the OP trisher, growstuff et al astounds me, expressions such as those who voted to leave the EU 'can't even string together a coherent sentence', 'empty vessels' - really! How arrogant and presumptious!
Can you explain to me what is bigotted in believing in a parliamentary democracy and the due process of law? And can you please say who has said such things?
You have posted your reasons for leaving but can you post a solution to the N Ireland problem?
As for agriculture an economist who used to work for theNFU fears 50% of UK farms will go under with No Deal.
Rickard said:“The campaign to leave the EU was based on the idea that the UK would quickly secure a comprehensive new trading relationship with Europe and that leaving would have only positive impacts on UK farming. But today the reality looks very different.”
In the event of a no deal Brexit, Rickard argued that many industries would suffer but agriculture would feel the most serious economic shock.
“It is impossible to project the exact number of farmers who will go out of business”, he said. “What we do know is that over 40% of them will have no net income if the basic payment is removed. If at the same time the government removes all tariffs and so depresses prices, these two factors combined will render over 50% of farms in this country unviable.
“The possibility of any compensation from the government going anywhere near offsetting this is remote because so many promises have been made to so many other sectors and not all can be fulfilled.”

This is the kind of thing directed at Gina Miller …

Please show me where I have ever stooped to this kind of level.

Did you hope they'd go away if you didn't give them an answer lemongrove?

Surely there's no need to stoop to any level?

Maybe WOODMOUSE if anybody who had voted to leave came up with a factual and coherent answer, it could be the basis for a rational discussion.

Even Senior polititcians refuse to answer questions. Here is Andrew Neil trying to get an answer, and getting no-where. How can the Government both respect and abide by the Law, and still say we will Leave on Oct. 31st, whatever happens. It does not tally - and yes, it does make people very concerned. Then you have Farage saying 'he will take a knife to Civil Servants and implies 'Supreme Court Judges'. And on top of it all- we know learn that language and aggession is being stepped up in the hope that violence will break out and Johnson can call a 'State of Emergency' that would allow him to silence opponents.

www.facebook.com/votelovenothate/videos/2368913989894752/

For anyone who is able to read all the information we have now, but did not have three years ago, to claim that "we will definitely save huge amounts each year" is an indication of blind faith in propaganda.

I might understand it coming from Crispin Odey, but from anyone who is not a billionaire currency speculator -I have to say as politely as I can, please don't hold your breath.

No, there isn't MissAdventure, but it seems to me that there are some people who aren't aware of the kind of abuse people like Gina Miller are subjected to on a daily basis. I could fill this thread with examples, if I were so inclined. It really is relentless and for our PM to jump into the bear pit with his aggressive metaphors is a disgrace. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I do expect the leader of a country to take some kind of moral lead.

I really didn't appreciate abbey's insults, hysterical rant about "hating" anybody who voted to remain and (presumably deliberate) misunderstanding of what I wrote.

libra10 The example given by joelsnan was totally misguided and could not be blamed on the EU. It wasn't "helpful" - it was wrong. Are people expected to accept errors without comment?

Genuinely interested in your reasons for thinking the pound will recover against the Euro and the dollar.

BTW An estimated 202,000 citizens from other EU countries immigrated to the UK in the year to September 2018, and about 145,000 emigrated abroad. So EU ‘net migration’ was around 57,000—roughly the lowest level recorded since 2009.

The largest group is from Poland, followed by Ireland. Leaving the EU will make absolutely no difference to immigration from Ireland.

There are far more immigrants from non-EU countries, over which the UK has (and has always had) total control.

Trisher
You ask who said most of them can't even string together a coherent sentence
It was, growstuff on Friday @ 09.53.

A serving soldier is being investigated for sending this Twitter to Labour's Angela Rayner:

'It read: "Ohh f* off you stupid b****, c** like you will perish when civil war comes and its coming. 17.4 million people are gunning for blood if we don't leave."'

this is what is happening to large numbers women MP's, and people like Gina Miller. If you don't think this is concerning- then I really can't reply anymore.

So what, petra? Read some of the stuff which has been written by people who voted to leave.

whenever a real fact is posted, or a link to a primary source for something that has been misunderstood by those who want to leave, there is a deafening silence from 99% of them

Well, in truth, you do have to be stirred up to reply in depth, with sources and references to articles etc. Sometimes I look, think, "that Remainer argument can be countered" and then think, "Nah"....I just cannot be bothered.

I know through PMs that many others feel the same way. Why justify, why post, just to have the majority of Remain voters pounce?

I have received so much flak, and so many replies to my posts which are personal, dismissive and snearing.

I also find myself answering in kind - and that person is just not me. I am slowly learning some forums just aren't fun, yet they require effort.

Why should I give a damn, really? Why become involved in online spats over something which will unfold in it's own way?

Brexit has been going on for three long years. The Leave vote won the referendum, and the Remainers are STILL sore losers, demanding answers from those who voted differently.

For example, there are lots of pieces out there criticising the Yellowhammer paper. It's another Project Fear weapon for Remainers, isn't it, yet it has it's critics. I just cannot be bothered to find them and quote them.

So, it looks like Remainers are occupying the high ground, when in truth, all we have is far more Remainer posters interested in getting involved than Leave posters.

I cannot speak for all Leavers but

a) I do not respond to the almost constant, since the result of the referendum was published, demands that I explain fully why I voted as I did. The fact that Remain voters use non-explanation as a weapon to suggest Leavers are ignorant or clue-less happens time and time again.

and

b) I feel that it's a waste of time or ineffective. (I was going to use the phrase "Pissing in the wind" in truth.) No one is going to have a Damascene-type conversion, are they, because of something I write?

Perhaps that is an angle Remainers might consider when they are left chatting to themselves on various threads?

This is a nervous first post having read through the many comments. I think I agree with Libra10 and lemongrove that it seems that if anyone disagrees with the group they are removed effectively by a kind of mobbing with demands from many sides.

I think this is a strength of remain minded people, they think and act as one. I noticed that Abbey has not returned. She mentioned that someone had complained to shut down her views. It appears to have worked. I am sure she would have returned to answer a number of the points raised since her last post if she could have.

That says a lot about remain minded people. They behave as a group to achieve their ends. They hunt down offenders and scare them off or worse, as you suggested Libra 10. I think she made some good points, unfortunately they were lost in a giant rant. I can understand but it did not do her any good as the group mentality overwhelmed her and finally, because she came back again and again fighting, they had her removed as she said in her last posts.

Leave minded people tend to work as individuals. I think that is why there have been few organised protests. I certainly know from experience that many of the pro EU protesters in London were organised and even had their fares paid to allow them to get there. One of those people was a close friend of mine. She didn't go for the protest, just for shopping in London, all expenses paid. An hour of her time was given to the protest.

I think the same thing is reflected in parliament also. Remain work as a group. Brexit seems to be a whole range of small individuals who share similar interests coming together in loose associations. They do not have the same kind of group mentality.

I noticed one poster who seemed concerned that leave voters did not understand what a good thing staying in the EU was. What we were giving up I think was the phrase . Please do not ask me to go back through 16 pages to find it.

It struck me that remain minded people seem to think that we have all shared in some kind of good life within the EU. I think a lot of politicians and media people shared that idea and that is why they were so upset when the result was a leave vote. They continue to promote that idea.
They misjudged and continue to misjudge.

In their world everyone has benefited. However, it is clear a lot of people found maybe have not benefited from being in the EU. More than found themselves as beneficiaries. That is why the vote was leave.

I personally voted to leave the EU. It was based on my life experience. I did not follow any political argument on either side. I have wanted to leave the EU for almost 40 years. That is since I first started work.

I was unable to vote in the 1975 referendum as I was too young but I remember my then employer telling all the staff and workers to vote to stay in the "Common Market" as it would protect their jobs. If they did not vote to stay we would all lose our jobs. I know most employees voted to stay. The vote returned a majority for remaining. Everyone was happy when the result came out, they thought their jobs were safe. Unfortunately 8 weeks later the firm decided to close down and move production to another country. I think it was Spain or France, although it might have been both ( different sections to different places). I lost my first job. It was a big employer. The whole area became depressed. Its never really recovered. There is a lot of anger and hostility amongst people where I live, all directed at the EU.

It could be seen as bad luck I suppose, but that has been the story of my whole working life. I have had 3 different jobs where the firm has ended up moving to another country. In all cases it was because the EU gave them a grant to re locate. In one case they even brought our replacements over to be trained by us before they closed us down. It wasn't that we were losing money or had poor production just that the grants were generous and the labour cheaper in other countries.

It hurt. I moved through a number of jobs in a downward spiral until I landed in my current one. Not a good job because it is part time. It pays the bills though. We have a lot of EU workers in some of our departments. Most of the work is taken by labour from EU countries. That helps keep my wages down too. We have high unemployment where I live . There have been a few EU grants given. One was for a cycle path to be built. No jobs in that. The cycle path is now overgrown and not used. It never was used.

It has been my feeling that the EU has not been a very good outcome for me personally and it has not helped the area where I live at all. I want something better for my family than I have had. I too am quite angry that my vote has not been listened to. The vote was 70% to leave the EU in my area, so I think I am not alone. When I talk to friends and neighbours we are all quietly very angry, but as individuals we do not know what to do. We do not have a remain minded group organisation to rally us to any protest call or to shout down the remain minded mob.

So I have made my post. Its all I wanted to say really. Now I must run off before remain minded groupies jump on me. I do not want to find myself banned before I even make a start.

Thank you for reading. Most kind.

Of course you think it can be countered!

Who says abbey has been banned?

Maybe somebody with a better understanding of GN's systems could confirm. abbey's profile is still available for PMing, so I'm assuming she hasn't been banned or deleted herself.

I hadn’t intended to add to this thread, but have decided to in order to reasonably explain some of my reasons for leaving the EU

Thank you Libra for your reply. As a leave voter I share all your concerns.

I am also very concerned that the fragile currency, the Euro, which we may have to adopt, is our concern all the while we are a member of the EU.

Not only do we feed BILLIONS into Brussels each year for membership - far more than the majority of member-states - we, the UK taxpayers, and our government, would be liable to absorb those overseas member-state debts too and bail out the Euro if and when it crashes, to the tune of billions and billions of pounds, on top of the fees we already pay.

That's a concern I'd rather the UK didn't have.