Why are "Leavers" so angry?

newnanny, you say, "I hope Boris can find a way to get us out without a deal now. Any deal can come after we come out so on more equal terms with EU". I think that only works if both sides are as powerful as each other. EU would have the upper hand and the UK would lose out.

growstuff
Diplomatic relations between Poland and the European Economic Community began on 16 September 1988. A year later, on 19 September 1989, during the first visit of the Chairman of the Committee of Ministers of the EEC to Poland, an agreement was signed on trade and commercial and economic cooperation in Warsaw.

Joelsnan, thank you for explaining so fully your reasons for wanting to leave the EU. I quite understand how these issues would have led you to this position.

I, too, am concerned about our infrastructure being owned by foreign, albeit EU, countries. I would not be unhappy to see a Labour government re-nationalise our utilities.

As for manufacturing, I agree that our manufacturing industry is in a sorry state, but I suspect that this is much more because of cheap imports from Asia than from the EU.

Where the movement of labour across the EU is concerned, I think there are issues. There are both benefits and problems associated with free movement.

My belief is that all these issues are better addressed through negotiation from within the EU, rather than by turning our backs on it altogether. I honestly believe that the alternatives are far worse.

But it wasn't in the EU.

The UK is going to have to sign all sorts of trade and commercial and economic cooperation agreements with all sorts of different countries.

You can't blame the EU for that.

jura, sorry what do you mean at 15.08?

Agreed Amagran. Having willingly sold the vast majority of our utilities to other countries, mainly in the EU but many outside of EU- makes us incredibly vulnerable, as an Island (well several) to pressures from the outside.

If we, for instance, refuse to pay our debts to the EU- the 39b. - they could act like Bailifs and say, ok, don't pay- we will take payment as we can. They can also blocade us - yes, even Raab did come to realise we are an Island (well several). So cooperation is paramount.

So Joelsnan do you imagine that when we are Brexited there will be no agreements with Poland? We will be desperate to sign agreements with anybody and probably the terms will be much worse.

Heard it all on Thursday, a local man of about 60 fish was asked he voted leave, the answer... to see what happens.

Thats says it a.

Growstuff
It was a Common Market trade deal that enabled us to access the cheap Polish workforce.
Yes, Poland became a full member in the early 2000s. But we were trading with them as a result of this treaty in the late 1980s
Changes in Polish politics during and after 1989 allowed diplomatic talks regarding Poland's participation in the European Economic Community. Formal negotiations began on 22 December 1990, and ended on 16 December 1991, in the "European Agreement establishing an association between the Republic of Poland and the European Communities and their Member States". At the same time, along with the European Agreement, Poland signed a trade agreement included in the Interim Agreement in force from 1 March 1992.

Despite (now, as opposed to at the time of the referendum) being a convinced remainer, I have suddenly realized that much as I think we are making a big mistake leaving the EU at the current time, I am much more concerned about the Johnson's actions and motives than I am about leaving in itself.

It has long been recognised in many quarters that he only backed Leave to further his own career, but his plan did not take into account that Leave might actually win the referendum.
The result tripped him up, but he certainly wasn't going to let that derail his ultimate aim. Everything that he has done since has motivated by the very same desire for power, regardless of the consequences for either our country or its people. Stirring up anger and 'threatening' unrest are perfectly deliberate move in his game.

He is clever (in some ways!) - he is playing this like a game of chess, and he has realized that by presenting himself as the champion of 'democracy', he can't lose whatever the outcome: if he achieves our exit from the EU, he can forever claim to have respected 'democracy', while if he is thwarted, he can blame it all on the evil EU and those so-called'traiters' in Parliament (despite the fact that the vast majority of them, unlike him, are doing what they truly believe is best for our country).

To put it simply, he doesn't give a damn about any of us ordinary people, whatever our stance on Brexit - we are just expendable pawns in his game!

Mamacaz I think you've hit the nail on the head - for him, it's a win-win situation.

Growstuff
On reflection, the Co. started the move in the 90s. I have to try and remember where I was and lived in this town three times. It must have been during my second time there, anyway, the sentiment remains.

Poland's agreement with the EEC came into force on 1 February 1994, three months after the Maastricht Treaty came into effect. The first step was the establishment of the Commission for the Unification of the Republic of Poland with the EU, whose task was to supervise the implementation of the new agreements. Talks at ministerial levels in the Polish Parliament were conducted within this commission. The Parliamentary Unification Committee acted as a forum for relations between the Polish Parliament and the European Parliament.

Growstuff
It would appear that the government's strategy is to inflame people, so that we have riots and it can call a state of emergency.

Is that really what remainers expected?

Now this I can believe.

This whole shabang has been caused because the majority of MPs are Remainers, (+ the EU) whilst the majority of the people are Leavers.

Of course Leavers are angry! So many obstacles have been put in the way - and will be, until this debacle ends. And so would the Remainers be angry, if the shoe were on the other foot!

The take a chill pill message was not answering a question, difficult or otherwise SirC and jura it was a suggestion for angry remainers to calm down on GN ( they can still be angry in real life if they like.) lemongrove Fri 27-Sep-19 12:10:15

Whose angry? You really can't be angry with children or people with the intellectual capacity of children. I just wish the would stop messing up our lives.

I’m not angry with them......that’s the point.

Actually it wasn't *GG13 I genuinely would like to know why Leavers feel the need to abuse the judiciary and criticise the due process of government. Fri 27-Sep-19 12:46:34

They want to destroy democracy trisher. Did you see that man on Politics Live? He was actually inciting violence! Apparently, if they can't have everything they want, when they want it, they will just destroy everyone else's life.

Joelsnan The deal was done before Poland joined the EU in 2004. In the late 1980s Poland had just left the Soviet bloc, so the EU was keen to sign up all sorts of preliminary agreements.

After the UK leaves the EU, we're going to have to sign agreements with loads of different countries all over the world. Countries will relocate to other places where there is cheap labour. Leaving the EU won't stop that. In fact, the rate might even increase.

I disagree with you Lyndiloo, the whole shebang has been caused because leaving the EU was never going to be as simple as walking away. People like Professor Dougan from Liverpool University predicted it would take years for a clean break and he was right, but people just dismissed him as an "expert".

Michael Morpurgo was wearing an anti brexit badge in Sidmouth the other week and was spat at by a brexiter; this is how these 'angry' people behave. I think most of them, if they weren't angry about the lack of progress on brexit would just find something else to be angry about. The referendum just fed them with things to be angry about; it stirred up a hornets nest.

Why did you misquote me Joelsnan? I wrote "Is that what leavers expected?"

This is currently on sale on Amazon

I agree with you 100% MamaCaz.

I've been saying for ages that my main concern is the effect this will have on our democratic systems.

History will judge Johnson as the PM who behaved unlawfully and unethically to achieve his aim, which has nothing to do with the good of the people.

He is setting very dangerous precedents.

The book doesn't seem to have good reviews, GrannyGravy. I think I'll give it a miss.

Day6 At least 17.4 million people are cheering on Boris.

You honestly believe this? Would that include the people who voted leave but have now decided that remain is a better option in view of all the losses we would have? Can you confirm where you got this information from, or is it just like so much from Johnson, say it often enough and it becomes "truth"?