33 days to go .... What’s the Brexit plan?

Dominic Grieve accuses Dominic Cummings of lying to undermine MPs

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/oct/02/dominic-grieve-accuses-dominic-cummings-of-lying-to-undermine-mps-video

I just hope they realise that we aren’t all so arrogant and idiotic.

Best For Britain
@BestForBritain
The UK having taken 1198 days to make our back-of-a-fag-packet proposals on the Irish border, we now demand that the EU respond in two days.

I cannot imagine the patience and calm it must take for Brussels not to tell the UK just "piss off".

Whoever Best For Britain are ( sour grape Remainers?)
Do they not realise that it’s just as important for EU countries to have a deal as it is for us?
Patience and calm! Piss off?It’s not two neighbours having a row about a loaned lawnmower for heavens sake.

Many rows about lawn mowers and fences escalate into sour relationships that last years.
The latest proposals have received a very frosty reception not least by the Labour Party so anything on those lines look very doubtful.
The EU countries will be damaged by no deal but to a far less extent than the UK, no one gains from no deal except the speculators.

Time for the LP and others in Parliament to get behind the deal then!

Well, I have watched various presenters on television try to explain these proposals and also read several online explanations of the plans. However, I cannot for the life of me work out in my mind how this "duel Irish border" is supposed to work.

Now, I would be the first to accept that only having received many years ago a dreadful Council Estate Secondary Modern School education from which I emerged with no qualifications whatsoever I am most cretainly no great academic.

So, could someone who may feel they have a grasp of how what appears to be " back of the fag packet" proposals please possibly try to explain in layman's terms how this "duel Irish border" will operate?

I have no doubts that many in the Road Haulage Industry who will have to operate this system will also be scratching their heads this morning as there are not many employed in that environment who are running around with PhDs. ?

Don't be ridiculous, lemon. I doubt if even the ERG would get behind this 'deal'

There's nothing to get behind, anyway, because this was never a serious attempt at resolving the backstop 'problem'. It's just another opportunity for Johnson to hone his 'blame the EU' rhetoric.

Johnson is so much hot air and piffle. Spouting in his speech an example of British scientific success of an organisation that is 80% EU funded is surely shooting himself in the foot.( he obviously wasn’t briefed on that one). Why moving the border away from the border makes any sense to anyone gawd knows. This gets more like the Thick of It daily.

how this "duel Irish border" will operate?

I think the 'duel' for'dual' typo is pretty appropriate here

It isn't going to work because it isn't meant to be able to work. See my previous post.

.

Boris shot himself in the foot during his speech at conference, The Prime Minister mentioned the Fusion Energy project in Culham, Oxfordshire, giving it as an example of British strengths and abilities. It is indeed cutting edge and some of the best brains in Britain work there
Culham is part of the Euratom Project, Culham is 88% funded by the EU. The French pay the largest portion of the funding and provide a large proportion of the scientific personnel.

The Prime Minister’s Brexit proposals are worse than Theresa May’s. He has abandoned the all-party commitment to an open border in Northern Ireland by announcing that customs checks will be required.

And by giving the Northern Ireland Assembly a veto over the new arrangements, he is undermining the very idea of an insurance policy that all parties can rely on. It can’t be an insurance policy if one side can pull the plug on it.

And how will it help peace and stability in Northern Ireland if every 4 years there is a divisive debate about whether to follow UK or EU rules ?

The reaction from business organisations in Northern Ireland is very telling. They do not want this.

twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1179656742201954304

It isn’t a deal.

All it is is trying to fiddle around with the backstop.

I assume they are accepting Mays deal and re-presenting that?

It’s more hard core Brexit than May’s deal.

It seems designed to fail, so that the pesky EU can be blamed.

Boris in the HoC is really explaining his plan in a conciliatory and inclusive manner. As one MP said it’s the nearest thing to the Brady amendment - which was the ONLY indicative vote that passed in the House.

I for one think the tide is turning.

I think that most of the ERG are coming round to the idea,
And maybe Labour MPs too ( a swathe of them, not all.)
If ( yes, it’s a big if) the EU approve this deal then it will be hard for MPs to vote against it, as it will make them look extremely bad.

Even the BBC are saying Boris Johnson’s plan seems to be a genuine attempt to bridge the chasm.

Let’s hope so.

Blimey! Are you trying a remote murder, Ug! 'Even the BBC' !! I nearly choked on my jam scone..

That'll be the 'mouthpiece of the government’ BBC would it? Of course they'll say it could work, they don't want to lose their funding...

You have jam scones?

Haha!

But how about this MaizieD. ...

Even Labour MP Stephen Kinnock has said up to 30 of his colleagues could be persuaded to back the plans if Mr Johnson can strike a deal with Brussels.

Fellow Labour MPs Gareth Snell and Ruth Smeeth, who represent Leave-voting seats, also suggested they would back a deal.

Mr Kinnock said: 'If Dublin and Brussels are happy, then we're happy.'

I think that’s a green light and this plan could work, if Brussels want to try.

I’m not optimistic about the EU position though right now. Boris’ plan unshackles us further than Mrs. May’s ‘surrender agreement’ (which got voted down 3 times). The EU won’t like it.

Then again, if they don’t engage, No Deal looms.

29 days ...

The plan centres on a “two borders for four years” approach that keeps Northern Ireland in the EU single market until 2025, at which point the elected politicians at Stormont (assuming it has been reconstituted by then) can decide whether to stay in or leave.

Boris had considered delivering this as a “take it or leave it” offer, but he was more conciliatory in his letters to EU leaders setting out the proposed new protocol.

He wants a deal and this would address the fears of a return to a hard border while requiring compromise on both sides.

There is definitely a conciliatory note in Varadkar's words. The EU will be looking carefully at Westminster to see how the proposals are playing with MPs, and that seems to be a positive.

Game on. There is movement.

I can see a glimmer of light !!!!

Johnson must take the whole country with him or it will never be seen as legitimate by over 50% of the population.

Best For Britain
@BestForBritain
Cute little grenade lobbed by Varadkar, on the possibility of the UK reversing its decision to exit the EU: "All the polls since Mr Johnson became PM suggest that's what the British people actually want, but their political system is not able to give them that choice."

It would seem that the European Union have rejected the new British proposals but not completely dismissed them.

As expected the main problem it would seem is in the checks on goods travelling into the Irish Republic which if not carried out in a comprehensive manner could threaten the integrity of EU market standards.

I feel there may be some "mileage" in these proposals but it may well take a considerable time to work out how those vehicle checks could be made acceptable to the European Union.

That may well require Britain's leave date to be put back beyond October 31st. Would Johnson and the ERG group in the House of Commons be prepared to accept that to gain a deal?????

Oh get real WWmk2 ... ‘must take the whole country with him’?

Talk about raising the bar! I’d settle for a majority in the HoC.