Am I the only one

Thank you aprilrose for that post.
I honestly cannot think of a single European regulation that has inconvenienced or disadvantaged my own family but that's my situation, not yours and you must have specific examples (which you may or may not wish to share).
I cannot imagine how your family might have been damaged while your husband denies that's so.
Can you see why it's difficult to understand your point of view?
I agree that, to some extent we have to see the whole fiasco in the context of our own families, but surely we also have to see beyond that too.
I have no family in N I but can sympathise with those who are dreading the possibility of trouble ahead - one reason I voted to remain.
Sorry, but I couldn't change my mind/ vote on the basis of what you've said.

mcem, when my husband lost his job, the only one he had ever had, he was completely lost, fell into a deep depression characterised by paranoia. he blames himself for not being good enough rather than acknowledging what actually happened in his firm, which was , basically they packed up and moved to another country where they got an EU grant for setting up. That was back in 2008 before the bust of RBS and austerity.

His condition makes him is easily frightened by the remain fear campaigns. Anything he says to me is a product of that.
I understand it. However, that move by his firm, instigated by the EU has cost us dearly in terms of mental health and life. I do my best but there is no support service for my husband. I have to work. We have a child. he takes care of her. As long as nothing comes along to worry him he is OK. But this remainer lark has really caused a lot of his paranoia to flare again - and why shouldnt it? That is precisely what remain minded supporters are trying to create.

I fear for my childs future. When I look at my own life over the last 45 years, it has not been a good one generally. My husband worked hard and then got thrown onto a scrap heap along with many others in my area. I look forward to a life in the EU and I see no change from what I have had.

I look at my colleagues at work and see that their children seem to be in perpetual debt. perpetual students some of them because their degrees have not yeilded work opportunities and now many parents are paying for them to do Masters and Ph.D's. All as an alternative to the dole queue. Some have moved to other parts of the country but fared little better than those who stayed local.

If what was is to be what continues ( ie EU membership) then I want to see change. The future is not bright in the EU.

The problem with this group is that if you say too much you get accused of things that are not true. I have seen it...... so one says there are too many people fighting for too few jobs and diversity gives those jobs to others - someone interprets that as some kind of anti immigration/ racist comment. It isn't. Its just a statement of how things are.

If people would talk and listen to others without having to throw the r words and the i words and the other isms around, we might all get a lot further.

comment | Report | Private message aprilrose Sun 20-Oct-19 09:25:16
Aprilrose you ask where did I comment I had marriage problems ?
Well, here, basically

I am sick of being called names by those who do not agree. This morning my husband called me " thick", " don't have a brain", "stupid" " don't understand" and all in on sentence. He is a remain minded person. Its not the first time but I don't think I will forgive him now. Since I am the main earner in our household. I find that an insult of the ultimate kind

I think that sounds pretty abusive Aprilrose
In our 47 years of marriage. I never experienced that sort of language. And saying you will not forgive him sounds a lot like “marriage problems” to me.
I think concern was being expressed for you - don’t shoot the messenger!

Oh dear aprilrose! Perhaps it would be better to listen to your husband's logical arguments rather than put you fingers in your ears until he accuses you of not listening, so not understanding.

I take your point and thank you for your honesty.
I can honestly say that what you are going through is beyond my own experience but explains why you feel as you do.
Factories have closed here and former employees who were well -paid and self-sufficient have been known to need food banks but this is not because of the eu. New technology and industry changes caused redundancies and unemployment. Many now have new jobs and good support is on offer but if that's not the case in your area I am sorry.
Don't know where you live but the job situation sounds pretty dire overall.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it can't all be because of the eu surely.
Maybe some of your young people might have benefited from freedom of movement.
I can't agree that the government stopped listening and providing support because of eu regulations.
Most of the time since 2008 we've had Tories in power so how will staying in help if they continue to be in power?
We all risk being far worse off.

Oh dear Varian, my husband never has a logical argument these days. he just hurls insults. Ive got used to it. Put him on the spot and ask him what it is he is actually defending - what it is that means we will be worse off out of the EU or ask him why we should remain in the EU and frankly he doesnt know. He lives his life cowering in a corner worrying about eveything.

His argument to me this morning was that we would be destitute and in the workhouse. Seriously. I pointed out we didnt have workhouses these days and I had a job , one not dependent on the EU and we would be OK. Then he told me I was thick and stupid . So he has no dinner.

He has calmed down now and he is OK again. So we do not mention the EU and remaining .

^Please don't take this the wrong way, but it can't all be because of the eu surely.
Maybe some of your young people might have benefited from freedom of movement^

Freedom of movement to do what? The unemployment rates in most EU countries is much higher than here. They have no jobs in many EU countries, thats why their youth come here. Its a one way street. I know this because the children themselves have said so.

Some have moved areas but the job situation for most of them is no better in the SE and around London than where I am. It doesnt matter if it is all the EU or not.

In my own case it is and has been very much the result of being in the EU. I have lost three jobs as a result of the main local employers moving out over the years. I was luckier than my husband, I got other work. But I am a woman.
I hesitate to say it but being a woman makes a difference in getting work now.

Thats all I base my views on. Nothing else is important at the end of the day. Its all airy fairy if it isn't in your own experience.

Most of the time since 2008 we've had Tories in power so how will staying in help if they continue to be in power?

I lost my first three jobs under a Labour government .

aprilrose Sun 20-Oct-19 13:06:23 I am sorry but I totally disagree with your second paragraph and do not think that, whatever previous experience you have, you should assume that is what we all do. We don't. I do wonder if it is what you would do and that is why you think we do?

I was the one who asked the question and no leaver has ever asked me for 3 reasons why we would be better off in. However here are 3 random ones in no particular order:

1 They buying power of a large group is much higher than the buying power of one small nation.

1 The money markets have devalued the £ by 20% since the vote in 2016. They make such decisions based upon information about how the country is likely to be affected. Therefore things are more expensive than they would otherwise be already. The markets would leap up if we said we were going to revoke A50

2 Germany has already said that it will treat us as a rival in economic terms which means we lose all the benefits of being in the EU. No country is going to put us before their own interest when it comes to signing trade deals which take years to agree. In the meantime we have to trade on WTO rules.

I think that really comes to more than three so I have given you good value. Over to you

Please tell us "I know what the EU has cost me and my family" what you know.

Incidentally I don't agree that the Remain campaign 'got it wrong' in the way you said. Their mistake was in failing to tell us what we would lose by leaving and MSM not telling us what the lies were.

aprilrose Sun 20-Oct-19 13:45:41 You really cannot blame all the UK's ills on the EU! Please explain how it was the EU's fault your husband lost his job and developed paranoia? I worked for an international company which closed down a plant in the UK because it was easier under British law to close one down than under German or French law. Nothing to do with the EU.

It is the UK's responsibility to find jobs for its graduates, no one else's.

I think we got told very clearly what we were "losing" nonnie. That nice Mr. cameron sent us all a booklet ( paid for by taxpayers like you(?) and me) so that we would know exactly what we were voting for.

april it didn't tell us everything. Can you answer my question please?

That 'nice Mr Cameron's booklet' was dismissed as Project Fear and Leavers claimed they didn't believe any of it.

So how can any Leaver now cite it as being what they voted for?

No. I will not fall into the trap of answering any question on your terms nonnie. I learned not to do that a long time ago. I explained the reasons behind my husband losing his job. It was directly as a result of an EU grant, not because of another countries laws or ours.

The paranoia was/ is his problem. His response to being thrown away I suppose but we all responds differently dont we? No doubt you are harder than the nails my old grandmother used to make in the industrial midlands circa 1901.

In answer to OP, I’m fed up with the whole darned mess. I suspect eventually we will have a new ‘normal’ but who knows what that might be?

I fear for the future!

Which leavers Maizie? Shouldnt you be saying some leavers? Some of us read the booklet. Some of us thought for ourselves afterwards too.

I think most folk in this country are well and truly fed up of brexit and want it to stop.

The problem is that much of the media support BJ's slogan of "get brexit done" and encourage their readers to think that would be the end of the nightmare when in fact it would only be the beginning.

How do we get the message across to these folk that the only way to stop brexit is to STOP BREXIT?

I’ve done this before - check the archives. It’s tedious to go over it again as no one is going to be swayed by arguments anyway after 3+ years!

One The EU is strangling the UK in burdensome regulations:
like the rule that you can’t recycle a teabag, or that children under eight cannot blow up balloons, or the limits on the power of vacuum cleaners, or VAT on tampons.

Two Immigration:
In recent years, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans have come to Britain to do a job. This has undercut the native working population. Don’t give me that the British workers ‘won’t do the jobs’.

Three The UK could keep the money it currently sends to the EU
For every £1 we give the EU they let us have 38p back.

Four for good measure Nonnie
Corruption in the EU set up. They haven’t had their accounts audited for nigh on 20 years. I wonder why?

Since when has your life been disrupted by being unable to recycle a teabag?
Locally, soft fruits were dumped because locals won't do the job
( because the current benefit system makes it virtually impossible to take short term seasonal jobs. Free movement meant eu nationals could opt in then return home.
In any left of centre society the rich subsidise the poor.
BJ and cohorts desperate to avoid new eu rules on taxation will wreck their tax avoidance schemes.
So your point is???

Ooops forgot about the straight banana rule!

Last comment facetious mcem but it’s to be expected I suppose.

Add to that the vagaries of the Euro as a currency and the fact that the biggest shareholder in the EU - Germany is propping up the Bundesbank and the Duetchbank with money it doesn't have.

If we leave the EU I think it might well collapse sooner. If we do not leave the EU it will stagger on a few years, we will be hamstrung by being part of the Euro currency and when the whole lot collapses, we will go down with it. An almighty crash.

In addition to that now, since we voted to leave and have made steps to do so, if we remain as those remain minded here want to do, the EU, especially Germany and France will do their best to "punish" this country , or rather its population for daring to vote against them. They will be successful. It will be deep and swinging and general. We have to face the future and go it alone outside. I have no reason to feel we will be better off punished by the EU and staying than we will leaving on WTO.

That is something remain minded people do not seem to understand -or maybe that is their utopia?

We need to leave now. There can be no going back

That is before I would get onto my political worries about such a large federalist union which cannot meet the needs of all its member states.

The phrase of Jean Claude Monet often exercises me on this:
""Europe's nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."

That essentially means we have all been lied to from the outset.

The whole idea of such a superstate frightens me in terms of the power it will certainly wield. Power corrupts. Superstates do not work well.

He also pointed out that there is really no such place as Europe. He intended to invent it. To do that it would be necessary to destroy all individual identities. I have a distaste for that kind of ideology.

Posted to soon!

Tampon tax?
vacuum cleaners?

Non auditing of accounts?

This thread won’t stay for us Brexiteers aprilrose I can sense the Remainers scrambling for ‘evidence’ and typing furiously already!