For brexiters only please.

Leaver grans should have their own dedicated forum where they can express each slogan for each other's pleasure.

E.g MAKE BRITAIN GREAT AGAIN

taKE Back CONTROL

My reasons don't have to stand your's or anyone else's scrutiny Gracesgran and it isn't for you or anyone else to say whether my reasons for voting leave, or the reasons of any leavers were or were not based on "truth or reasoned judgement".

They certainly do if you are determined to make my future and my children's and grandchildren's prospects less secure and with fewer possibilities. You will end up having to answer to those whose lives you damage in a far deeper way than on a GN post. You will be remembered, just as others have been remembered for the acts you have undertaken that will ruin people's lives.

I am also totally within my right to oppose what you want if I see that sort of future ahead of us. Indeed, I would be lacking in my duty to those around me if I didn't. And now we hear there won't be an impact assessment after Johnson and his entitled cronies first tried to stop parliament in its proper duty of scrutiny.

To use the language favoured by those who, just as the OP and the Tories use it to set about excluding half the country and denying free speech and parliament's rights, you may have won a battle in 2016 but you hell as like haven't yet won the war.

grapefruitpip
1. To share vital information regarding security
2. Educational qualifications which are Europe wide
3. Investment in deprived areas from EU funding
4. Not being a very small country but being part of something bigger
5. To enhance our lives by being linked up with others.

Informed Brexit voters know:
1. Vital information regarding security is shared worldwide it is not EU specific.

2. UK educational qualifications are generally equivalenced worldwide. The same cannot be said for many EU qualifications, even French and German.

3. The EU does not have its own money. All grants made by EU are made from taxes you and I send to them. The EU then skim off a large % for admin purposes, then UK has to submit a bid to receive part of our own money back. The amounts we have been receiving has been declining over the years as more money is diverted to increase the industrial bases in Eastern Europe.

4. The area of a country is irrelevant. UK is one of the big movers and shakers in the world. Founding member of UN, Nato. Centre if worldwide banking Industry, Member of the Commonwealth group of countries etc.etc. Much of the technology industries emanate from UK i.e. management of bandwidth and satellites. This is part of the reason EU want to keep EU, because of its global influence.

5. We would not be cut adrift from Europe. Brits have and always will continue to live, travel and work in Europe, as they also live, travel and work worldwide.

GracesGranMK3
Can you elaborate why you are so sure that by remaining in the EU you are (without doubt), securing yours and your children's futures?
BTW, do you consider yourself Middle, Upper class or what?

Ok, well those are my honest thoughts. That's all.

GracesGranMK3
you may have won a battle in 2016 but you hell as like haven't yet won the war

Very confrontational talk.

BTW, Do you know any other ‘civilised’ country where:
In a democratic referendum the largest % of actual voters are prevented from having the result of the referendum enacted by the losers?

That a small % of the overall population marches in a bid to overthrow democracy?

To an outsider, especially one living in a dictatorship, this must beggar belief. But hey ho, its true and its the UK, the supposed birthplace if democracy.

If I decided to start a thread for those who were interested in quilting I would expect quilters to join in the conversation. Another example those who are interested in astronomy. Like minded people would get together and discuss this science.

So why is it causing such a problem for Leavers to get together and discuss their hopes and fears ?

If I saw a thread on cake baking, which is of no interest to me, I would steer clear of it. So why do Remainers want to mix with us Leavers ? They’ve made it clear they despise us (not All of them, just a few).

I think the tribalisation of it is a bit worrying; an extension of what is happening in the rest of the country.

dear me, what a sad state of affairs, partisan little gangs of people with their own special names....Leaver/Remainer.

How on earth can a Remainer despise a Leaver, how ridiculous.

grapefruitpip
You identify as a remainer don’t you? Surely that means you too are ‘buying in’ to the partisanism and tribalism.

identify as a remainer ?????

I think the EU is an unwieldy, costly organisation with many faults. On balance I would prefer the UK to be part of it.

How does that make me buy in to tribalism.

Nan your examples are so very different from a political subject thread. Although I really appreciate the beauty of quilting and admire the skill and creativity that goes into it, it’s hardly likely that high emotions would be stirred between quilters and non quilters

aprilrose Good try but it you have at least shown the nastiness that Leavers have to contend with, even when just asking for a chat.
Demands that we explain ourselves, hyperbolic accusations of 'not being worth it' (whatever that means), etc.
Laibak why use works like 'tribalisation'. The country is very divided but part of that is that it is difficult for Leave voters who aren't the kind to call Remain voters 'Remoaners' or bitch about immigrants to have a civilised conversation without being abused. Tory voters have their own conversations as do Labour or Lib Dem voters. Why do you begrudge those of us who would just have like one thread out of thousands to discuss our experiences. Remain voters have a way of bullying Leave voters off threads. I don't bother to join in those conversations any more and they just get taken over by the Remain side so this was not really such a big ask.
Joelsnan Good post.

grapefruitpip
I think the EU is an unwieldy, costly organisation with many faults. On balance I would prefer the UK to be part of it

Why?

Hard to credit that three years down the line, the sore losers are still demanding explanations from anyone who had the temerity to vote to leave! It’s quite funny in a pathetic kind of way.
When will they stop I wonder? When we are out of the EU,officially perhaps? After all, what would be the point then?
It reminds me of the Scottish couple we met on holiday, who told us of the ‘bad loser’ syndrome displayed by fellow villagers after the Scottish referendum and how unpleasant those people had been.
Human nature....red in tooth and claw.

I already said, Goodnight. It's all absolutely horrible and I need to get off this damn thing.

You talk about bullying and in the next breath someone calls remainers, yet again 'sore losers'. I actually wore my EU t shirt when I went into a coffee shop on Saturday night because I was tired, needed a drink and wasn't able to change. It was late and quite quiet but I was still on edge waiting for my lift home to arrive. No shouts of 'you lost, get over it' thankfully [there's a first]. And people say there's no tribalisation.

......but you are a sore loser, as are others.The definition of a sore loser is one that simply cannot accept the winner and whines about the result.
There are those who voted to remain on GN and do not do that at all, are gracious about the result and think it should be implemented.Then there are those who just cannot let it go and howl for another referendum.

Joelsnan Here's a concise reason …

Life is about making binary choices. Some of those choices can, of course, be part of a planned series of choices but, in the end, they're all binary choices.

I do not believe (and I don't think many people do) that the EU is perfect or the current state of the UK is ideal.

However, when all the choices are considered, I do not believe any choice would achieve the aims most people want more effectively than staying in the EU and using other means to achieve a fairer society, increase the well being of the nation (or whatever people decide to prioritise). I do not believe that leaving the EU would make life better for anybody other than a minute group of very wealthy people.

I believe the EU has been used as a convenient scapegoat for ills which have been created by the UK's own systems. The same group of wealthy people have exploited people's grievances for their own ends.

That was as concise as I could get ...

Oh for goodness' sake lemongrove grow up! This isn't a football game or an episode of "Bake Off". Try to be a little less partisan and actually look at the bigger picture.

I'm beyond irritation with puerile name calling now. If somebody comes up with something worth considering, I'm sure most people would listen, but sadly most of the stuff so-called leavers spout just isn't even worth reading. To those who moan incessantly about being called thick, all I have to say is that if it walks like a duck ...

I still maintain that the leave campaign was based on lies and misinformation [and it pandered to racism]. As far as I'm concerned I'm fighting an injustice [and also standing up for the three out of 5 countries that didn't vote for it]. I do not want a return to the troubles in Ireland and I think that the EU are responsible for the fact that we no longer have wars in Europe.If that makes me a sore loser sobeit. But I'd rather be me than you even if I do get heckled in the street for it....

The idea of leaving the EU and becoming a free nation is a very grand and noble one.

However (and it's a huge however), leaving the EU, in reality, involves thousands of individual decisions. All of those needing breaking down and analysed. Then they all need to be considered as a whole. There may very well be advantages to a small group of some decisions, but there could be unintended consequences elsewhere, which will disadvantage other (maybe bigger) groups elsewhere.

We know what the status quo looks like. In some respects, it's not pretty and needs action, BUT the issue is whether leaving the EU will resolve those issues and I just don't believe it would. My own conclusion is that, in many ways, problems would become worse. IF there were mitigating factors, I could certainly be persuaded that leaving the EU is the better option - but, sadly, those who voted to leave don't appear to be able or willing to explain those mitigating factors. That's why those who voted to remain are so exasperated.

The way our government has behaved over the last few weeks just confirms my view that is a project which isn't a noble or worthwhile one. If it were, the government wouldn't need to resort to the underhand tactics it has. It's all a big game to them, but the stakes are high and, unfortunately, very real. We're not pieces on a Monopoly board, which is how I feel Johnson, Rees Mogg, Cummings and their cronies are treating the plebs people. The childishness of some of the posts by those who voted to leave confirms my views even more.

growstuff
Thank you for your response, however it is a vague generalisation.
What I am hoping to get are specific benefits that are exclusive to EU membership that are beneficial and are what has convinced you that remaining is best for you, your family and the rest of the nation.

The way our government has behaved over the last few weeks just confirms my view that is a project which isn't a noble or worthwhile one

Why blame to government for trying to apply a democratic decision made by asking the eligible electorate of the UK what they wanted in a leave/stay referendum. As mentioned earlier, have you ever known a country where a group of people who lost a vote are trying to destroy democracy? All those poor countries fighting for a democratic state must be looking on gobsmacked

Presumably the ‘bigger picture’ growstuff is your excuse for all the whingeing that has gone on over the last three years.
Oooh, it’s not fair, we don’t like that result etc.Well, sorry but
You may not like it, but many of us do.
When Corbyn loses the GE you may well not like that outcome either, and will you demand a re-run?

Your last paragraph Joelsnan.....spot on!