And next it's Alex Salmond

Those are rare cases compared to the sheer number of women who have been abused over the years. Do we abandon all such cases in case a poor man was found to have been falsely accused? No. Let justice be done.

You’ve read about some allegations where the person accused were ultimately found to be not guilty but you said you think there’s an increase in wrongful allegations. I wonder if you have statistics to back that up?

Jane does it matter whether they are rare or not? They matter, wrong is wrong. it isn't either or.

SirChenjin Sun 24-Nov-19 14:15:58 if that was to me I have already answered it. No I have no statistics and I doubt they exist, the same as there are not statistics about how many women abuse men. The only abuse statistics we have are those which are reported.

That’s right - but I wondered what statistic you were basing your belief upon. The number of cases of sexual abuse, assault and rape are staggeringly high compared to the number of wrongful convictions - we shouldn’t be detracted from that.

I am not sure whether both accused and accuser in sexual assault and rape cases should be entitled to anonimity.

When the name of an accused man is in the public domain, quite often other victims come forward.

On the other hand it could be impossible for an innocent man to ever remove the stain on his reputation.

SirChengin of course we shouldn't be distracted from that but we will never know how many false accusations there are. I have no idea how many 'wrongful convictions' there
are but that was not what I was talking about.

Until recently I read that the police had been instructed to believe complainants whatever the situation. Cressida Dick said that should be changed. I read on Sunday of a woman who posted a nude picture of herself on a false Facebook page attributed to her ex. She was found guilty. I simply point out that it works both ways and I think men are less likely to report it.

varian when the rule about not naming came in I think it was right because there was still a stigma about the person who had been attacked. I think that has now gone and we all have sympathy for the victim. I would think it is now time to name anyone who claim is proved to be untrue. At the moment there seems to be no deterrent to false claims.

There will always be cases where the person accused is found not guilty - but ‘whataboutery’ detracts from the fact that there are many hundreds of thousands of cases of sexual assault, violence and rape each year (and of course many more each year that go unreported). Whilst it’s wrong, of course, for anyone to falsely accuse anyone of the above it’s important to recognise that the number of cases of actual rape/sexual assault/sexual violence/sexual coercion/etc far outweigh the number of false allegations.

I would be very very wary of naming the accuser until the rates of conviction improve. At the moment there’s only a small percentage of cases where the accuser is found guilty - are you really saying we should name every woman whose case is thrown out? You’d be naming the majority of women if you did that.

My Alexa responds every time he’s mentioned on the news.

Accused is found guilty

It would appear so

What does your Alexa say when Salmond is mentioned Yehbutnobut?

SirC I think you are misreading my intents. I do think that if a person has gone to court and been found to have made false accusations they should be named and charged with whatever is the appropriate charge. I don't care if it is male or female, I simply think they should be held responsible for wrecking someone else's life. I am not competing with you I am saying that men get a rough deal too. Don't you accept that?

I don’t think men get a rough deal, no - you only have to look at the stats to see who’s getting the rough deal.

If you start naming those who make false allegations then you have to be absolutely certain that these allegations were false with intent to deceive as opposed to a not guilty or not proven verdict - because as I said, the number of cases that actually get to court are very low and the number of successful prosecutions is woeful. If you start naming and shaming every women with a not guilty/proven outcome to her case you would be naming the majority of women and you’d reduce even further the number of women reporting incidents. You would potentially be subjecting very vulnerable women to a defence lawyer who would tear them to pieces in an attempt to prove that intent to deceive - again that might put women off reporting their attack if they could potentially face a mauling in court. I recognise that for a small number of men that a wrongful conviction can have a devastating affect - it’s hugely difficult and complex area.

If you’re absolutely determined to protect the men accused then it would be better not to name either party until a guilty verdict has been reached - but again, that woeful number means that other women who might have been on the receiving end of similar from that man and who could be encouraged to come forward would be prevented from doing so because they would never see the name.

SirC we are at cross purposes again. I have not mentioned 'wrongful convictions' I am talking about deliberate acts as shown by that poor young man in Croydon. Do you think it fair that she got off scot free and his life was wrecked? I don't.

I reiterate that the statistics only relate to reported cases and that men are far less likely to report. I personally know of a case of a woman who hit a man and called the police to say he had hit her. This was not an isolated instance and the social worker saw through it. This never went to court so it is probably not in any statistics. Why are there now refuges for men if they are not needed?

We can be pretty sure that a man would not take court action if a woman put her hand on his knee or his bottom. If a woman tried to grope a man and he didn't want to be groped I doubt he would do more than push her away as we did in the 60s. Of course serious sexual assault is wrong at all times and in all cases but surely some of the things can be dealt with outside the court? Isn't public opinion able to help deal with it? I think public opinion means that builders no longer whistle at girls.

Ten women. Ten.

Yes 10.

Nonnie - you said "I think there is also an increase in wrongful allegations" but you've been unable to point to any statistics or facts which bear that out. You've also not answered any of my points I raised in my previous post - instead you choose to focus on the men and blame the women for not simply pushing away these predators.

I'll reiterate what sarahcyn and Jane10 have said. 10 women and 14 charges. I'll also quote some facts from Rape Crisis Scotland.

Recent global prevalence figures indicate that about 1 in 3 (35%) of women worldwide have experienced either physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime. (Source: WHO Factsheet on Violence Against Women (updated January 2016) at www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs239/en/

Most of this violence is intimate partner violence. Worldwide, almost one third (30%) of women who have been in a relationship report that they have experienced some form of physical and/or sexual violence by their intimate partner. (Source: WHO Factsheet on Violence Against Women (updated January 2016) at www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs239/en/

In 2018/19, 2,293 rapes and 133 attempted rapes were reported to the police in Scotland (Source: Recorded Crime in Scotland 2018-19)

In the same period, 13,547 sexual offences were reported – this was an increase of 8%, from the 12,487 sexual offences recorded the previous year (Source: Recorded Crime in Scotland 2018-19)

While figures for many crimes in Scotland are going down, for sexual offences they continue to rise. Sexual crimes have been on a long-term upward trend since 1974, and have increased each consecutive year since 2008-09. Sexual crimes are at the highest level seen since 1971, the first year for which comparable crime groups are available. (Source: Recorded Crime in Scotland 2018-19)

Set that against the following:

The conviction rate for rape and attempted rape in Scotland has fallen to its lowest level in eight years, according to new figures.

The latest official statistics show 39% of those taken to court were found guilty, down from 49% in the previous year.

The conviction rate is the lowest since 2008/09 when it was 37%.

The 2016/17 figures show a 16% rise in court proceedings from the previous year (251) but a drop in convictions.

Although those convicted dropped from 105 to 98, this was still double the number of a decade ago (49) when far fewer cases made it to court.

And that's just reported figures. If we accept that none of the women on here who have experienced assault/intimadatory behaviour/abuse/etc are lying and none of us reported it we begin to get a sense of how low the reported figures are in comparison to the lived experience.

intimidatory

SirC what have I not answered? How have I disagreed with the figures about women? I haven't. On various radio programmes I have heard many times that men are much less likely to report than women. I would have thought that was pretty obvious. I have even heard Jess Phillips say that!

The males suicide rate is often suspected of being because of mental abuse by women. I know of one which definitely was, his brother told me. I have personal experience of a woman hurting a man physically and mentally to the extent that I heard the social worker get angry with him for not reporting it to the police.

Why do you think men are not abused by women? I am simply stating facts. Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? Please read my posts again but with an open mind. Thanks

Nonnie - I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make as you seem to be going off on tangents.

We all know that more men commit suicide, but where do you get the figures that show "the suicide rate is often suspected of being because of mental abuse by women?" I'd love to see that, because there are numerous reasons for men commiting suicide as shown here www.england.nhs.uk/blog/tackling-the-root-causes-of-suicide/

As for "Why do you think men are not abused by women?" - please point to where I've said that? However, you need to keep that in perspective by looking at the figures re attacks on women that I posted above. I wonder why you keep focusing on men and how unfortunate it is that women don't simply bat away the men when the stats show very clearly that women are disproportionately affected and the reasons for that are clearly defined.

SirC if you are going to quote me please use the whole quote.

I have not compared what happens to women to what happens to men! For goodness sake read what I have said. I don't think I can put it any plainer!!!

What other part of the quote would you like me to use?

I dint understand why you're persisting in this Nonnie.
SirChengin has given us chapter and verse on how bad the situation is for women. It deserves to be taken seriously and without a whole lot of 'yesbuttery'.