Gransnet forums

News & politics

"Get Brexit done" but exactly when and how?

(27 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Fri 06-Dec-19 06:46:35

I am feeling very concerned that this hasn't actual been explained. If the Conservatives win an actual majority, although the polls do not tell us they will, we still don't know if we could just drop out with no deal - a probable catastrophe to our economy or be negotiating for years in the could get it through parliament.

Beyond the chime of the simplistic slogan ... either nobody knows or nobody is prepared to say. Does anyone actually know?

GracesGranMK3 Fri 06-Dec-19 06:47:28

in if

Ginny42 Fri 06-Dec-19 06:52:41

I'm speculating that Boris Johnson has gone camera shy, because he secretly wants to lose the election as he hasn't got a bliddy clue either. It's like the shock on his face when leave won the referendum. Remember? It was all a jolly jape.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 06-Dec-19 07:15:30

It's certainly possible. One other floating question is how many seats the Brexit-Tory Party need to win and how many to lose.

The first winning post for the BTs is not the same as it is for Labour (weirdly). The BTs may be the biggest party but without a majority. Is that enough to get a bill with a boarder down the Irish Sea, as Mr Johnson's bill has, through? The second is will they have enough to get all the phases of the subsequent negotiation through? If not Brexit will be far from done.

The LP seems to have a different finishing line. They may actually be in a better place to form a government with the help of others. The BT have run this election not just by "playing the man" and women but by lying and exaggeration so the will have few if any friends in the other parties.

Finally, no other country has had austerity in the way we have. Most now know it was purely political and not economically necessary, and, worse than that, it has not succeeded in its declared aims. Not everyone will hold that against them but a large number of the working population will. Even if the get into power how long can they remain if things do not improve?

This is a very different election.

EllanVannin Fri 06-Dec-19 07:23:53

If Jeremy Corbyn had been a staunch Brexiteer and you were a Conservative who were Remain, who would you vote for ?

GracesGranMK3 Fri 06-Dec-19 07:39:26

I think it might depend on which of the BT's crises affect them most I suppose, plus which of the lies they have chosen to believe.

MamaCaz Fri 06-Dec-19 08:42:07

Let's just imagine that the Tories do get an overall majority.
My guess is that if Boris doesn't manage to 'get Brexit done' within a very short time, as he says he will, that majority - or at least the full support of those who make up that majority - will start to fall away pretty quickly, and the bickering amongst them will begin.

If this were to happen, is it theoretically possible that Parliament could again prevent us from crashing out without a deal at some stage, or not?

Whitewavemark2 Fri 06-Dec-19 08:45:57

mama not sure how parliament will be able to do anything if Johnson gets a majority.

He is intent on tackling the constitution and taking power away from both parliament and the judiciary.

He is also threatening the media that if they don’t fall into line he will reuse them a licence.

All very worrying

GracesGranMK3 Fri 06-Dec-19 11:46:22

Well, it appears that Johnson was lying all along and lying everyone to make his deal seem plausible. In a government document, cold, hard evidence, revealed by Labour today, we find the following:

Johnson said, "There will be no checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland." He told the people of NI that there would be "no forms, no checks, no barriers of any kind. You will have unfettered access."

The government's own findings say there will be customs declarations and security between NI and GB. It says there will be customs declarations for trade going from NI and GB. The government cannot rule out regulatory checks, rules of origin checks and animal and public health checks.

For trade going the other way, for GB to NI, there will be all of the above plus potentially damaging tariffs.

This means his claim of "no border in the Irish Sea" is simply not true.

He said his claim was "a great deal for Northern Ireland" on page 8 of the report it tells us that his deal will be "highly disruptive to the Northern Irish economy" this deal will be "the equivalent of imposing tariffs on 30% of all purchases made in Northern Ireland."

This is just the beginning and I'm sure some of the online papers will give more detail.

What I would ask is, if he would lie to the whole of Ireland about their future in this way how on earth can anyone trust him with the future or the rest of the UK. This document was not kept secret because our enemies could use it against us. It was not kept secret because of negotiation with the EU. It was kept secret for the sake of the Conservative Party and for the sake of Mr Johnson's future.

Britain has always had a healthy scepticism towards politicians but we have expected them to be rooting for the UK not their own ambitions against the good of the UK.

Lying has become a virus within the Tory party. Short-term gain supersedes democracy and the good of our country.

varian Fri 06-Dec-19 14:29:43

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union? (Asked after the referendum)

Field work dates: 19 October 2016 - 29 November 2019
Data from: Great Britain, United Kingdom
Results from: 75 polls

Latest poll shows 54% Remain, 46% Leave.

The majority want brexit GONE, not done. We must vote to stop the Tories and stop brexit.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 06-Dec-19 14:31:58

I agree that the majority just want it to stop being the main work the government is doing and to stop talking about it.

If we do have to have to leave it must be because it is better for us not worse!

varian Fri 06-Dec-19 18:20:36

We do not have to leave. For more than two years polls have shown a remain majority.

We need to do everything we can in the next week to stop the Tories getting a majority.

Consult all the tactical voting websites to see how you should vote in your constituency to STOP) BREXIT.

trisher Fri 06-Dec-19 18:26:24

I've got my crystal ball out and I'm trying to get an answer but it seems unable to produce anything apart from a fat flat face with white hair and the the word LIAR.

jura2 Mon 09-Dec-19 09:44:59

Which Brexit??? THAT is the question - 'Brexit' as a clear entity does not exist- there are so many possible forms of it.

In Switzerland, if something like Brexit was put to a legal Referendum (and not advisory as per British Law, and no PM is above the Law) - every voter would have received a comprehensive booklet with the form of Brexit they were voting for, and all the pros and cons, from different parties- all all fact checked for being true and accurate. It would also have defined what would happen if that form of Brexit could not be achieved.

It was criminal and totally irresponsible to put such a stupid, vague and immensely complext question, with a 'no' or 'yes' vote.

newnanny Mon 09-Dec-19 11:00:35

EllanVannin I would have voted for Tory even though I wanted Brexit badly. The reason is you can't ever trust Labour with economy. Every Labour government has always ended with huge debts to be passed down to next generation.

Urmstongran Mon 09-Dec-19 11:07:08

I was going to post something on this echo chamber of a thread - then thought ‘nah, let them enjoy themselves’!

Opal Mon 09-Dec-19 12:49:35

You and me both Ug grin

jura2 Mon 09-Dec-19 12:51:27

Oh go on- both of you, which form of Brexit were you voting for- as we all know you both knew EXACTLY what you were voting for.

GracesGranMK3 Mon 09-Dec-19 12:51:38

Which Brexit??? THAT is the question - 'Brexit' as a clear entity does not exist- there are so many possible forms of it.

Isn't that the truth.

MaizieD Mon 09-Dec-19 13:28:26

Every Labour government has always ended with huge debts to be passed down to next generation

Another one who needs a bit of education in economics...

I'd post a chart showing that that statement is completely untrue but brainwashing trumps the truth any it's not worth bothering with.

paintingthetownred Mon 09-Dec-19 13:34:44

I know I've mentioned this before, but there is an indepencdent charity called which analyses spin and they have picked apart most of the claims made.

It is independent and I find it personally very useful and helpful when it comes to making up my mind. Perhaps you would too.

all best

Opal Mon 09-Dec-19 13:35:31

And where would that statement come from MD? The left wing propaganda machine?

Whitewavemark2 Mon 09-Dec-19 13:41:47

opal try some academic research, that would help.

jura2 Mon 09-Dec-19 13:45:23

oh come off your high horse WWvm2 - what is wrong with the DM and the Sun- and the Brexit party manifesto hey...

MamaCaz Mon 09-Dec-19 14:01:16


I suggest you take a look at this country's debt debt figures right now.
Of course, if the Labour party was in government, those figures would be regularly plastered across the pages of the DM etc., but because the Tories have been in power for nearly ten years, they remain strangely silent about them!