Does anyone believe BJ has any intention of negotiating a Deal with EU?

Varian

Don’t forget the Human Rights Act Greta - Tories no keen on that either.

''Boris Johnson is preparing to tear up part of the Brexit deal as he sets out his "red lines" for a trade agreement with the European Union on Thursday.

The Prime Minister has made it clear that he will not be bound by the political declaration attached to the EU Withdrawal Agreement, which sets out the ground rules for a trade deal.

Downing Street sources said the rules of engagement agreed by Mr. Johnson last year had been superseded by promises made in the Tory manifesto on which he was elected in December.

The Prime Minister believes he is within his rights to go back on previous agreements covering areas including borders, fishing rights, and state aid.''

He has signed an withdrawal agreement agreeing to basic principles and is now backing out. All EU members, and others around the world, know that he cannot be trusted and his word is worthless.

VArian 'what will it take to make them wake up and see the truth'?

When it is too late, is the answer. There is so much poorly placed false pride involved... that many at this stage would rather scupper the country than admit they were wrong.

Breaking new from the Guardian:
The U.K. says it will consider walking away from E.U. talks in June.

“The government said it hoped to achieve “the broad outline” of an agreement by June with the aim of finalising a deal by September.

But it said that if not enough progress has been made by June, then the government would “need to decide whether the UK’s attention should move away from negotiations and focus solely on continuing domestic preparations to exit the transition period in an orderly fashion.

The UK’s demands put it at odds with the EU, which wants some degree of regulatory alignment, with the option of imposing tariffs if one side reneges. It would also like a role for the ECJ.

Downing Street says this goes further in restricting the UK’s sovereignty than the EU’s offers to other nations such as Japan, Canada and the US.”

But this is what Johnson signed up for- no? Why did he sign if it is not what he planned?

The message to the EU, and anyone else around the world- Johnson cannot be trusted- ever.

La Perdide Albion strikes again or rather 'le' or 'les' (ERG) - mind you Baker has just resigned, so François is in charge - God help us.

Perfide - of course.

At last, someone with the backbone to stand up to these EU bullies! Demands over fishing, demands over Gibraltar? and that's just for starters! Lucky I don't take that attitude with my window cleaner, as for certain I'd never see him again!

Not sure if I would compare our EU negotiations with hiring a window cleaner, Jabberwok.

I think in terms of civility it does!! 'I want, doesn't get, ' compromise stands more of a chance!

Yes Jabber- let's have the backbone to shoot ourselves, in the foot- both feet even - yeah, that will show them - bravo, hurrah.

Why on earth should the EU not insist that there must be a border between UK territories and the EU?

Yes, I agree. ”I want doesn't get” is what we used to tell children. So perhaps you need to tell our PM that if that's his stance viz-a-viz the EU he needs to change his tune. If he is at all interested in getting a deal that is.

Don't think it is Boris using the word 'Demand' surely protecting our fishing waters from huge foreign trawlers decimating a natural resource in our coastal waters has to be a good thing?! Or should they once again be sacrificed for the sake of the gravy train and corruption of the very wealthy!

I'd totally agree fishing quotas should never have been sold for lots of profit for a few, to foreign interests.

Most of the fish caught in our waters is sold to the EU. Without an agreement, our fishermen will have no market. The reality if that we export the fish we have, as we don't like it- and vice-versa. A bit of a pain, that.

From the Telegraph tonight:

“Britain feels that the EU has already lost the moral high ground after studying the EU's own mandate published earlier this week. While Michel Barnier has insisted that the political declaration – an attachment to the EU Withdrawal Agreement that sets out the basics of the future relationship between Britain and the EU – must be followed to the letter, the UK says Brussels has already massively overstretched beyond what was agreed.

One of the most telling comments this morning from a Government official was that while the political declaration contains just one paragraph on the EU's "level playing field" demands for standards and regulations, the EU mandate contains 20 paragraphs on it, proving that the declaration is effectively meaningless.

As ever, the biggest gulf between the two sides is over the level playing field. The EU says Britain must agree to adhere to EU standards and rules to prevent unfair competition, Boris Johnson says over my dead body.

The two sides are miles apart as things stand. The negotiations begin on Monday, but whether either side walks out before they even get to Tuesday is anyone's bet.”

Who are the Telegraph to say what "Britain feels"? Maybe the small percentage that are their readers do but how dare they decide what the rest if us feel. I do not expect this sort of blatant ignorance from the educated writers of this news sheet. Could we possibly have an intelligent discussion, please?

OK. The Telegraph.

This is Pete Foster, the Europe editor of the Daily Telegraph. It's a long twitter thread which I've copied, omitting the screenshots of the documents he posted with each example from business organisations.

I make no excuses for its length.

Start
So. The UK's negotiating mandate is out, setting terms for future UK-EU partnership....livelihoods depend on all this, so here's the crazy part - the government admits it will do the economic assessments after the fact - see Para 12 1/Thread

Crazy, because you'd think that the government might have "invited contributions" before emarking on this journey. I now understand from source, there will be NO IMPACT ASSESSMENTS... /2

Which perhaps isn't that surprising, since we know from the October 2018 assessments that were forced out of the
@theresa_may government, they are all negative. This is NOT about relitigation of #Brexit. It is about taking an 'evidence-based' approach, about listening. /3

Of late, I have spent a lot of time talking to business groups - across all the sectors - and the groups, all with different issues, share one thing in common. A quiet, seething, livid rage. They fizz with frustration. It is quite remarkable to behold /4

I still don't really understand why the Conservative, the alleged party of business, is so content to become the party of "f*ck business", to borrow a phrase - and why they don't fear the reputational risk more, or the impact on their new 'red wall' votebank

Today, I've been watching the official statesments of business and lobby groups drop into my inbox. These are the official, chlorine-washed versions of what they feel able to say....so here are a few. The 'red' highlights are obviously my own. /6

Let's start with shipping, at random. It just came first. We need to protect value of trade with close partners, we are not convinced UK govt negotiatiors *recognises this reality". Do I need to decode that statement? WILL YOU PEOPLE LISTEN TO US? /7

Let's stick with transtport, see what Aviation groups ADS says? We need "pragmatic arrangements" ...we are "disappointed" the govt is not seeking more ambitious approach to aviation safety, says policy director
@cullasys Disappointed. /8

What about
@AllieRenison of @The_IoD , the bosses group? More disappointment. They were "hoping for a more balanced approach on alignment and divergence" - oh the glory the understatement. Only a quarter of IOD members reckon there is time to sign and implement a deal. /9

What about the British Retail Consortium
@the_brc- whose member have shelves to stack? Customers to serve? UK govt must to "much further" in its ambitions to avoid "disruption at the border". They warn of proposals "lack clarity" on the most basic stuff - like VAT. /10

What about
@cbicarolyn of the CBI? She warns about "red tape" and urges govt to let biz "provide the insight that is essential for the UK to prosper outside the EU.” English translation? Please, please listen to us...pretty please. /11

Not strictly a trade group, and obviously more partisan, but here's what Scottish Govt has to say - UK govt strategy sets "extraordinarily low bar" and cd cost economy £9bn-12.7bn by 2030, compared with EU membership /12 news.gov.scot/news/uk-mandate-will-hit-scotlands-economy…

This will no doubt be condemned as more carping, more endless relitigation of #brexit...but that is not what this is about. Brexit is happening, course it is, but it is remarkable to listen to the roll-call of despair from those who employ folks, pay mortages etc. /13

This will no doubt be condemned as more carping, more endless relitigation of #brexit...but that is not what this is about. Brexit is happening, course it is, but it is remarkable to listen to the roll-call of despair from those who employ folks, pay mortages etc. /13

It's easy to demonise big business, harder to do that to the little guys. But as we embark on this great adventure next week, the UK govt will hold a consultation on these impacts "later this sprin". Does anyone seriously think they'll listen? ENDS

End

Here's the thread if anyone wants to see the documents he cites

twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1233094625809838080

Of course, there are the recently shafted farmers, too. The NFU president says:

Minette Batters(NFU) - For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane."

Watch her saying it here:

twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1232300200913514496

It's incredible that the government didn't talk to business leaders before starting negotiations and won't be carrying out an impact assessment. People's jobs and lives are at risk. You should go into negotiations wanting the best for your country, not to maintain standing in polls.

Johnson only seems concerned in maintaining the illusion that "Brexit is done" because that's what he's been selling voters. Of course, he'll now try to spin this as being the EU's fault. The EU hasn't lost any moral high ground, however much Telegraph readers might want to believe it, but the UK has.

The UK has been punching above its weight internationally for years because it was seen as an honest, pragmatic, stable country. Unfortunately, other countries see us as a laughing stock. We're on our way to becoming a third world little island off the coast of mainland Europe.

Thanks, Maizie. The thing I find surprising is that Pete Foster finds the government attitude surprising.

I like the articles by Peter Foster in the Telegraph MaizieD. He’s a Remainer. It’s always good to read articles with viewpoints that challenge my own!

As he said two days ago in the Telegraph:

“We shall have to wait, probably, until October or November to really find out whether this confidence will persist as another ‘no deal’ looms, although there seems to be a fair chance we’ll already have had an early blow-up in the talks by then.

Because while the mandate says the negotiation will be multi-track and operate in parallel, it is not clear how – if you haven’t agreed the parameters of the level playing field discussion first – you can really negotiate across all the sectors.

EU member states, including Germany I understand, will push for clarity on this issue early – to avoid it polluting both EU budget negotiations but also to properly frame the later, crunch phase, of the negotiation.

Given the current levels of chest-beating on both sides, expect the first phase to bring more heat than light. But that might actually create the space for both sides, having set up a series of ‘straw men’, to make a deal.”

The biggest difference in these negotiations is that we have Boris in charge. And he will walk away so the E.U. know this time around not to be intransigent. Last time they were dealing with Mrs. May who needed a softer Brexit deal as she had no chance of getting it past the Remainer HoC.

Why do you have so much faith in a lying coward UG? It seems very counter-intuitive.