Does anyone believe BJ has any intention of negotiating a Deal with EU?

''The biggest difference in these negotiations is that we have Boris in charge. And he will walk away so the E.U. know this time around not to be intransigent''

oh yes, they know. They also know that is is a liar, incompetent, with a team of incompetents- and even more, that he cannot be trusted as his word is worthless.

Reading the EU Press- they have had enough. They know it will cost them dear- but they are ready. Much much more ready than we are (as in not ready at all)- they have each other, they also know that many big players are interested in more Trade Deals with the EU- which is a much larger and significatn block that Little Britain. They know that the UK will be damaged beyond recognition and probably not recover for decades- and it will make them much stronger.

But don't anyone dare complain about their 'intransigence' - Johnson has gone back on everything he agreed and signed so far- and he and the ERG, with Cummings- will have to bear the full responsibility of the debacle about to begin.

Because I think he intends to stick to his manifesto pledges GGMk3 - he knows he has been loaned votes and wants to keep them going forward - and so far, I’m happy with what he’s saying. The polls validate his continued popularity. Just not with you.

And then what Urmstongran? Another Brexit party and a bit more flag waving?

What will actually have been achieved?

How will anybody's life be better?

I have no doubt that there is an element of bluster and game theory in what Johnson is saying. However, it's becoming increasingly clear that he doesn't know what he's doing. He's playing to his audience for his own sake and to maintain his own position. He's not listening to people who actually matter.

The best outcome would be for a sane deal with the EU, although that's going to take years to negotiate. Undoubtedly, there would be people who would say it's not "hard" enough and he'll have to think of a story (such as those nasty EU negotiators wouldn't let us have our own way) to save face. I wouldn't mind betting that Cummings has already written the script.

Urmstongran I don't know whether you realise this, but you've just said the same thing as I have. All this bluster is to keep the "new" voters happy for political reasons - for the moment. He's lying to them and I wonder how long he can keep that narrative going.

Not quite as you say jura2 as the E.U. added a few sentences to the signed WA in their mandate earlier this week which is why Boris intends to diverge from it! Cute of them but Boris’ team were not happy.

BTW I don't know why, but Steve Baker has resigned from the ERG and deleted a series of tweets, which have now proved to be false. The tweets haven't disappeared completely and have been published. They're all about the wonderful deals the UK will have with the EU and the rest of the world.

Mark Francois is now Chair of the ERG.

And Johnson has completely back peddled on Ireland! Sorry, but it's the UK which has lost any moral high ground.

Mark François- oh my ...

Just seen a joke cartoon- well funny but not so in many ways, saying

Lent and ERG 'giving up the truth for Lent' how very Christian of them hey.

Just go on drinking the Kool-Aid, Ug

With hardly an exception, the Tories on GN have abandoned any critical faculties they may once have had. The government and especially BJ are perfect in absolutely everything they do ( or don’t do);

What exactly has the EU added to the Withdrawal Agreement?

Steve Barker tweeted: The UK has now left the EU and the PM has the policy, the mandate and the majority necessary to make a success of it.

Fait accompli, then?

In other words …

I've done my bit to stir up trouble and now I'm clearing off before the sh*t hits the fan.

(I've deleted my tweets so that people can't read what I promised would happen. Oh bugger! I'd forgotten about those Twitter nerds who can find deleted posts.)

Yay, someone mentioned Ireland, the way in which BJ etc are reneging on the Black Friday Agreement is cavalier to say the least. I know links are not appreciated on GN, but just in case here is a piece on the current UK stance. It's written by a journalist but it sums up how the UK is being perceived by at least one small nation in the EU:

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/britain-is-uncomfortable-because-ireland-has-the-upper-hand-for-the-first-time-1.4187051

Good Friday Agreement!!! My gloom at the current political scenario is showing!

I will reserve my "critical faculties" until there is actual evidence of what the UK Governments negotiationing position is. I am sure I read/heard that they are going to be releasing details next week (Tues or Thurs cannot be sure which).

I cannot see the point of getting worked up on the basis of newspaper speculation.

I'm pretty sure that all the organisations Peter Foster cited aren't getting worked up on the basis of newspaper speculation. These are serious, high powered organisations which have responsibility to the members to voice their concerns. The primary one being that the government is ignoring them.

Unfortunately we are entering the realms of he said she said and depending on who you are listening to/reading there are bound to be differences and concerns.

I am hoping that the lack of Ministers being seen around or interviewed means that they are at their desks working on their respective briefs which should be beneficial for us all.

Are you suggesting that Johnson and Gove aren't telling the truth I what they're telling the public? Oh my! Whatever next!

Sales of Kool-Aid must be doing really well in the UK

There is NO way the EU can accept that there will be no border between them, the EU, and UK- if there is no alignment. Just can't be done.

That would mean that we could import any old c* from the USA, China, wherever- be they meat, poultry or fruit and veg- treated with hormones and GN crops- grown in poor husbandry and animal welfare- with slave labour paid very low wages - could then find its way on EU markets. This would totally undermine the EU standards, and bio safety- with much cheaper products (yes, slave labour and poor conditions and poor quality feeds are much cheaper) - dangerous, and totally unfair competition for EU farmers. Same for any other goods- as manufacturing with slave or very poorly paid labour, with poor workers' rights (no paid holiday or sickness/maternity, etc, benefits) and without adhering to EU standards- would also find its way onto EU markets. Dangerous- and totally unfair competition.

This is not 'intransigeance' - it makes absolute and total sense. No way either that they will allow their member, Ireland, to be put at risk, and the very hard fought GFA. NO WAY. Johnson has totally back tracked on this- so no-one can say it is the EU's fault, no way.

This is all about playing to the gallery. He wants to be seen as the hard man who stood up to those pesky EU blighters because that's what the gallery voted for.

I suspect Johnson has realised he can't deliver what he promised. He said so many things about Northern Ireland that it would be literally impossible to deliver. I have a horrible feeling that the fishing industry will be disappointed. They're not going to get what they want without crashing the whole British economy. Services are worth many times more to the economy and it would be suicide to let them go - the trade off is fishing.

My bet he'll carry on with this farce (all classic game theory) and then say he did the best he could. Does anybody remember how Yanis Varoufakis tried to outwit the EU with unrealistic demands? He lost and I suspect Johnson will too.

Sadly the gallery is lapping it up

EU never suggested a Canada or Norway deal. Only the UK suggested that. The Canada deal is completely different as it is about trading of goods and no Canadian lorries come to the EU border. Uk has some 10,000 truck going through Dover each day and most of our 'export' to EU is services which Canada does not have. Johnson has no leverage and is hell bent on the Australia' deal which is in fact no deal. This would create a red tape nightmare and he still has to solve the NI problem which is not part of an FTA and he has already agreed to.

indeed patcaf. Gove made ridiculous statements saying that proximity makes no difference- but of course it does. As said on another thread, the EU cannot accept, in any way, shape or form- that poor quality meat, agricultural produce, or any goods for that matter- produced cheaply with poor standards, bio safety and welfare or workers' rights could arrive from all over the world and then find its way into EU because of no borders or checks between UK (NI) and Ireland, or Gibraltar for that matter.