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Government is lying about lack of availability of CV testing chemicals

(166 Posts)
GagaJo Wed 01-Apr-20 13:33:45

I'm not surprised. But hugely disappointed. I understand politics and that a Tory decision isn't the same as a Labour decision, but at the moment, SURELY the only thing any government should be doing is whatever helps the country and its people the most?

Daisymae Wed 01-Apr-20 13:38:20

I find it all very strange that the government make statements which don't seem to hold water. However I expect that the truth lies in between. What worries me most is the feeling of disarray. It feels as if there is constant reaction as opposed to preventative measures. Massive lack of clarity and information. All they repeat is stay at home to save lives etc.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:05:31

Bloody labour yes we should be testing more... now are they going to offer any actual helpful suggestions re the LOGISTICS of doing so? No! Thought not!

I was told at least a week back from a friend in the industry that whilst we do have supplies there are huge problems getting those raw supplies through quality control and on to distribution.

As Daisymae said, the truth is somewhere in the middle

Iam64 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:06:01

I'm trying not to get into Tories Bad-Labour Good spats currently. There's too much at stake and I want to believe that our government is doing its best for the country and all its people at this awful time.
However, it's worrying to hear Gove being dishonest during press briefings. Either there is a shortage, or there isn't, the government chose not to order essentials.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:08:10

What we REALLY dont need is a load of faulty tests giving wrong results.

Having supplies, and having those supplies available for use, are too different things.

Also there are security fears if locations of supplies get known.

So I dont think gov is lying..

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:13:53

Imagine if Gove said "why yes we have a big warehouse of supplies in Essex (made up location). We have people in there working through the QC.."

Would you feel safe working there? They would have to barracade it with the army!

growstuff Wed 01-Apr-20 14:17:52

Gove didn't need to give a location. He needed to tell the truth. He lied.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:19:11

He didnt lie.

We do not have available usable supplies.

We have supplies that need to go through some processes before we can actually count them as available!

suziewoozie Wed 01-Apr-20 14:20:26

From what I’m picking up, there are several aspects to this which contribute to the testing problem. This is just my summary of what I’ve heard. Firstly, the government adopted the herd immunity route and so testing wasn’t given priority. Once the government decided more testing was needed, it had missed the boat and other governments were ahead of us in ordering supplies. Underpinning this is our lack of testing capacity - we have 47 PHTLs and Germany has 147. No one seemed to have a list of all the other labs available - private, hospitals, universities. (Apparently hospital labs are now to be used for NHS staff testing) I think some of the others are now to be ‘requisitioned’. There also seems to be a possible issue with now wanting to centralise testing facilities - this may be slowing down the timely availability of results. Also no one seems to have thought through the need to test NHS staff once the self isolation rules came into play and the impact of their absence.
None of the above points are party political but they do point to policy failures - the long term running down over time of the PHL Service, the failure to have a data base of all testing facilities ( necessary for any pandemic of any kind) and recent policy decisions made about how we were to handle COVID here including the containment phase and the pursuit of herd immunity.

suziewoozie Wed 01-Apr-20 14:24:11

For me, the issue NOW is not finger pointing but being levelled with - we have not been given the truth about testing capacity. I just want them to say how many they can do by when and for whom.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:26:19

Yes that is also true.

Medical labs have been reduced and centralised in recent years. Its not easy to just reinstate local micro labs that have previously been reduced/regionalised and the space filled with other equipment e.g. biochemistry robots.

A LOT has to happen between having raw materials and being able to actually use them!

Labour barking "DO MORE TESTS" doesnt help to solve any of those logistical problems

suziewoozie Wed 01-Apr-20 14:42:29

It’s irrelevant what other parties say - I just want the Government to tell us the truth about the here and now and not dissemble and prevaricate. We need to be able to trust what we are told don’t we ? Just say, our testing capacity isn’t sufficient, this is what we are doing, this is how many tests we can process by such and such dates. It’s the same as with the numbers of ventilators, we have been given various numbers and stories over the last two weeks and that’s just not on. These communication issues are absolutely the responsibility of the government

Marilla Wed 01-Apr-20 14:42:40

At the beginning of this health crisis, I put aside my dislike of Conservative policies and began to listen to the 5 pm briefings without prejudice. I thought the PM and his advisors were sincere and being honest about plans afoot and they were doing their best for the people of this country.

Now, after reading the Guardian in depth for several weeks and listening staff who work in our hospitals, I have come to realise that the Government and the people at the top of NHS England are being economical with the truth or even lying.

I know that any Government facing this crisis would face huge problems, but my God this bunch excel in incompetence and their mismanagement is now becoming more apparent. It’s quite shameful.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:54:04

Again re ventillators. The numbers are not straightforward.

Are you only counting the ventilators that can be staffed therefore used or not?

There isnt one number. Remember that when you think numbers are contradictory

Its like hospital bed numbers. It does not refer to physical "beds". It refers to how many beds can be serviced and staffed!

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:54:53

A ventillator without an ITU bed is as useful as a chocolate teapot!

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 14:58:26

Its very very "easy" for the guardian and Labour to "disprove" the government numbers. All you have to do is count them a different way.

But does this help or hinder?

GagaJo Wed 01-Apr-20 15:01:08

Iam64, I couldn't agree more. Political differences are out of the window at the moment. I don't care who gets us through this, as long as we do.

notanan, 'Michael Gove said a shortage of the chemical reagents'. There isn't a shortage. The chemicals are there. IF it is that they aren't tested or need processing, say it. Don't lie! I appreciate the proportion of the populace that continued to go out to the pubs/beaches/natural beauty spots after lockdown ARE stupid. But we're not all dim.

Our government need to stop lying. They ALWAYS get caught out and it just makes them look as if they don't know what they're doing. This is not the time for dishonesty, while their citizens are facing possible death in the thousands.

Angela Merkel is being obvious and clear with her country. Our leaders lie and don't take expert advice. They were told to 'test, test, test' by the WHO. They ignored it.

suziewoozie Wed 01-Apr-20 15:02:08

not I understand all that - I just wonder if the government do or do they deliberately change what they are talking about when they quote numbers? Basically if you were being honest and transparent you would say here are the ventilator numbers:
Number of ventilators actually physically available now
Number of ventilators which can be staffed now

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 15:02:24

notanan, 'Michael Gove said a shortage of the chemical reagents'. There isn't a shortage.

There is! If theyre not yet usable it amounts to the same thing!

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 15:04:11

Yes suziewoozie, but even those numbers could be counted several different ways and the gov would still be called liars by those who do not want to unite and help.

suziewoozie Wed 01-Apr-20 15:06:04

not I’m finding your posts, which are acting as apologists for at best poor government communication and at worst deliberately misleading, rather tedious. Gove should have said exactly what he meant without people having to translate for / excuse him.

suziewoozie Wed 01-Apr-20 15:09:03

not for goodness sake - which part of a governments responsibility for clear and transparent communication do you not understand? Why are you so determined to make excuses for them? These issues are too important

GagaJo Wed 01-Apr-20 15:11:07

notanan, the quote says there is a shortage. There isn't. IF they're not ready, that isn't shortage, that is not ready.

Of course it isn't the same thing.

Shortage is not having it at all.
Not ready is not ready for use YET.

I don't understand WHY you are defending lies? This isn't party politics. This is life or death of British citizens.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 15:13:49

I dont see it as lies. Its exactly in line with what my friend told me over a week ago, that we sort of have it but we dont really. It's not straight forward.

notanan2 Wed 01-Apr-20 15:14:41

This is life or death of British citizens.
We all know that.
None of this is gonna get the logistics sorted sooner.