Other government news. Life outside of covid

You must remember that the country is not in total lockdown. People are going to work, if they can keep socially distancing. online firms are selling out, chocolate firms and garden supplies included. I suspect that is one reason that the infection rates are still surprisingly high.

But bars, restaurants, gyms, coffee shops, independent book shops, pubs, florists, nail salons, barbers, hairdressers and many others all desperately need customers.

ug yes they do but not at the expense of peoples lives. Very few would want that trade off

Nobody would want that trade off WWmk2 but there are experts who are telling us this semi-lockdown is costing the U.K. £2.3billion a day. Austerity 2010-2019 cost £30billion in total. Do the math. Without a return to work as soon as our scientists can agree to it, the hit to the economy will jeopardise the funding for even the NHS with, worryingly, bigger loss of life.

We have to be careful we don’t pit this as health -v- finances. It’s not that simple and it’s multi-faceted.

But Urmstongran people are saving money that they're not spending in bars, hair salons, travel to work, etc. Hedge fund managers are circling to buy up failed businesses. Most of the money won't just disappear. There will be people falling over themselves to lend it to the government by buying bonds. Of course there will be money to fund the NHS.

Don't kid yourself. Most people in the country will eventually be infected, unless there's a total lockdown. The government is trying to avoid too many people being infected at the same time and overwhelming the health services. There is also the important issue of shielding the most vulnerable and ensuring their financial and practical needs are met.

There seems to be pressure from certain cliques to return to "normal life" far too early. Maybe they really don't care about those who will be unable to access medical care or the elderly and vulnerable who will die.

I'm one of the people whose small business has just been destroyed and I'm not eligible for state aid. I'd love somebody to wave a magic wand and make it all disappear, but it won't happen. If restrictions were lifted tomorrow, there's no way I would go back to "normal" working because I have a much higher risk than average of ending up dead, which I don't fancy. I'm going to end up with no savings at all, but that's better than the alternative.

Can you explain what you mean by the claim that austerity cost £30 billion in total? Whom did it cost?

It was in Daniel Hannan’s article today in the Sunday Telegraph growstuff. I’m not sure what the amount represented.

Writing from Spain, and believing you're two weeks behind us, we are now starting to see the benefits of the lockdown.

But with the death ratio in the UK at 1:8, anyone who would want to lift these restrictions, at this time is foolish- it's far too soon.

The article does make a strong business case, for relaxing the restrictions, and it could be done, region by region, based on a number of factors: NHS resources; population density, and not least, protecting key industries from catastrophic consequences of this virus.

Life will return to normal, but sadly, just not yet.

Peter Kylie MP reporting that sky has done some outstanding reporting on the social care catastrophe.

We appear to have done what we always do in the UK in the absence of any bold and knowledgeable decision making abilities.

The decision was initially to use plan A: to allow the infection to run and accept the collateral deaths that would be the result of building herd immunity. When both infections and deaths increased exponentially someone in authority(!) panicked and decided we would switch to plan B, to kill the spread by mass isolation.

It was too late though - the virus was already out there in sufficient intensity and the 'rules of isolation' were slack enough for the infection to continue spreading. The figures are still increasing and while it looks like we might finally be reaching the top of the bell curve the numbers of infections and deaths increase daily.

As a result of the blending of A & B above, the isolation isn't working and we're doing very real, long lasting damage to our economy. The result of our 'leaders' losing their nerve and switching track has visited onto us the worst possible outcome: High death numbers AND a wrecked economy.

When I started reading Dan's article I found myself for the first time in years forming the opinion he was wrong... after mulling it over a coffee I think he's right. There's no damage-free route out of this mess but continuing how we are will lead to irrecoverable damage.

Apologies WWmk2 I’ve looped this back to Covid-19. Its supposed to be about other stuff. I’ll shut up now!

I've just read quizqueen's remark about the country being "FULL" does that mean when this virus has run its course and so many have died (herd immunity I think BJ called it) we will be putting up a "Vacancies" sign? (sorry but what is there apart from black humour?)
Incidently isolation has never been about beating the virus simply about helping health services cope.

You’re right trisher flattening the curve was to buy time for the NHS to manage the virus. It’s time to start thinking of an exit plan. Gradually. With an eye on other countries.

Those in charge changed their mind when the number of predicted deaths was quite simply unimaginable. The responses have been staggering slow and continue at the same pace.

I think one of the main difficulties the Government will have once it decides to start loosening the restrictions, is convincing the population that it's safe to go back in the water.

It wasn't the Government that started cancelling concerts and sporting events, and it wasn't the Government who stopped buying airline tickets and overwhelming online supermarkets.

Fear is very powerful. People need to feel convinced that this is for the best and bearing in mind the stream of horrible information that we have all been fed over the past few months, I think that is going to be an uphill struggle.

I see Murdoch via the Sun is demanding that we give up our triple lock pension.

And I for one will be very happy to do so.

M0nica in regard to your post @08:01, you should realise that when this virus epidemic is over the severe economic impact of the crisis will begin worldwide.

That may well bring forward increased inflation to which many living on state pension income will only have the Triple lock guarantee to preserve the meagre standard of living they have.

I see Murdoch via the Sun is demanding that we give up our triple lock pension.

How dare a right wing, multi millionaire voice this view. What on earth can he know of the likely impact on thousands of the poorest people? What would he care?

The extreme right in action again

monica are you suggesting moving away from a universal pension?

Removing the triple lock, does not mean that you cannot protect those who will suffer most from a drop in income. Pension Credit can be changed and beefed up and other changes can also come.

But as some one fortunate enough to have an occupational pension, and with a DH in the same position, I have found it very uncomfortable to be so protected by the triple lock, when I see the my own children and other people's struggling with falling incomes and increasing work demands.

Removing the triple lock and protecting the most needy are not incompatible policy aims.

They are if it’s the Tories doing it

I’m not a fan of pension credit or making people jump through hoops to claim stuff. I’d prefer them to have a decent pension in the first place and the triple lock will go some way towards providing one. Our state pension is one of the lowest in Europe and yet we’re one of the richest countries.

It will probabaly depend on if Cummings thinks there are enough oldies left to support the Tories. Well actually it won't because they can do what they like for the next 4 years can't they? I wonder what they will manage to use this epidemic as an excuse for introducing. Triple lock gone? Universal credit cut? Tax breaks for the rich? Business rate cut? If the banks crashing could be used for austerity what can you convince people a pandemic needs?

Cummings eugenics plan coming along nicely isn’t it?

Already the Tories are planning to hit the less well off. You can see all the headlines can’t you? Reasons as to why the poor must be screwed once again.