Worrying on many levels - M16 say today that China covered up the coronovirus ?

MaizieD as you state, sadly the United Kingdom is no longer a member of the European Union.

However, it is impossible to foretell what may be the outcome of this unprecedented crisis and in that a complete break with the EU many may see as not advisable at the end of this year.

The European Union has the economic power and strength to "turn around" it's commercial dependence on China in the same manner as America has carried out. Many I believe in Britain would see the sense in this country being a part of that.

The EU certainly has sufficient power to ensure that China comes to the table More as equals.

We don’t stand a cat in hells chance of anything remotely similar.

www.thecreativeindustries.co.uk/industries/arts-culture/arts-culture-why-the-uk

Much has been written about bringing back manufacture to the UK from China but we cannot compete with the cheap labour available there. Apparently China is capable of producing goods at all levels of quality, not just cheap clothing.

For many year books have been printed in China - not just cheap ones but good quality hard back "coffee table books" . The Chinese undercutting America and Canada by 40%.

I think that the UK excels in all aspects of the arts. This includes fashion design and technical design. Our actors are amongst the best, if not the best, in the world. Our ballet companies, our orchestras, comedians, pop groups etc etc etc are world famous.

Unfortunately this is not always recognised at home. I have some friends whose children showed artistic talent but who were persuaded to go into "safe" areas, such as law and accountancy, which some of them hate. One, now in his early thirties, the child of successful parents in art and design, had a break down whilst at Cambridge. He's now involved in the arts.

Some of you may be aware that my work for many years has been providing an accountancy and taxation service for artists and craftspeople which is why this subject interest me. And it is why I have added the above link which is to an interesting document explaining how and why the UK is a "global influencer" and an "international taste-maker".

On the subject of the professions, not all end up as politicians; most will end up doing divorces, estate planning, conveyancing. Last year I read an inquiry from someone working in manufacturing who wanted to start up as a sole practitioner. He thought better of it when he looked in yellow pages for his local area (south coast) and found around 700 listed.

We may well lose our global political influence and through the arts we can remain influential but in different fields.

“China is the worlds banker. You simply can’t ignore that fact.”

If that is true we should really worry, they are certainly a force to be reckoned with, having a totalitarian communist dictatorship controlling global finances is a really bad idea.

Over the years they have stolen technology and production capacity, much of their production does not affect the west too much but South America, Africa and Asia is dominated by Chinese technology, everything from smartphones to excavators. We are even getting them to build our new Hinkley Point Nuclear power station when they have no technology advantage they are just cheap!.

It’s about time UK PLC realized there are no free lunches.

david yes agree, and the worrying thing is that at one time China seemed to be moving towards greater freedom and a More recognisable capitalist economy.

But no more - power seems now to have gone back to be highly concentrated once more in a few hands.

MaizieD probably this, really Were you not aware that countries do this to influence the citizens of other countries?

Although if I think deeper (for a bear of very little brain) I can recall people arguing that Russia influenced Brexit using bots on forum sites? Ergo, if Russia is doing it so must China (and others I suppose.

I’ve never used FB. I thought it would mostly be on there.

The sheer scale that GrannyI illustrated was what made me sit up!

Is there no hope for me?

Whitewavemark2
Quote 'Don't be narrow minded and look at only China'! The facts are clear to all and China is not denying Corona virus has its origin in that country.What we are observing unless adopting a head in the sand attitude is the large loss of life this virus has caused and still causing throughout the world.The U.S and its chlorinated chicken gives CHOICE
'to buy /not to buy.To eat /not to eat
Their cannot be comparison to that which originates from China for which there is no choice causing death to thousand and U.S and chlorinated chicken.
China is accountable for its virus for which we have NO choice.The US gives choice for its chicken.Buy /not buy.

Dinamho.

So the solution relies in the arts does it, as far as I am aware “the arts” relies on rather large sponsorship, donations and subsidy and contributes very little in revenue to the exchequer

Just who is going to pay for social services?.

The US is investigating whether COVID-19 escaped from the Wuhan lab during experiments and China covered it up by blaming 'wet' food markets. Patient zero may have worked there where experiments on bats took place.

The EU probably could challenge China, but what the EU lacks in being able to do this is discipline. Being a democracy is actually a handicap as governments within the block come and go, each country rooting for their own citizens, changing rules, regulations, quarrelling amongst themselves, gravy trains often with self serving passengers running smoothly as of course they must! in fact paddling in treacle! Whereas China as a one party state can set on a particular path in the sure knowledge that domestically they cannot be challenged either now or in the foreseeable future and can set out on one particular path and see it through to the prescribed end and beyond with a completely free run! It doesn't take much to realise whose got the upper hand here!! I think we will fare much better dealing with China on our own than as a member of the self serving disjointed, dishonest to the point of fraudulent, fractious EU.

Wether we prove to be better or worse off than the EU remains to be seen but if the response to Covid 19 is any indicator we are worse than the EU average by some margin - on a par with Italy and Spain which is no accolade. The fall in the value of sterling reflects that.

At present Australia and New Zealand are very fearful of China because they are so indebted to them, almost all of the core industries are Chinese owned. But then it is the classic business tactic undercut the opposition and put them out of business, then take over and the classic military tactic divide and conquer.

Sadly our politicians are far too short term, they are only interested in votes tomorrow with no long term plan.

david sounds about right. Don’t forget the USA and that 16% of its entire debt is owned by China, most of the rest is owned by the USA and its people.

I’m beginning to think that CV was from a leak in a laboratory in Wuhan.
This is truly scary and because of it the whole world is like this.

Urmstongran I read earlier in the year that the virus was laboratory made, a Coronavirus with HIV put into it and that it was Patented last year, but I haven’t been able to find the original article for some time.
I guess if a lab was able to pick it apart they will be able to prove it or not?

Oooh, you're back, Ug. Any possibility you could clarify your answer to my earlier question?

I am absolutely horrified that so many people are turning round and pointing a finger at China as if they deliberately let this virus loose to terrorise the world. Do you do that every time a new illness threatens to become pandemic? Aids, Ebola? Were you pointing blaming fingers at other countries then?

It actually feels quite racist to me and it will inevitably lead to huge problems for people of Chinese origin when the hard of thinking start a hate campaign against them. (Though I have heard that that has already started,..)

Has anyone said that it was released on purpose? Russia has some pretty potent toxins that they can and will use as and when it suits them. I’m sure other countries are doing the same. China could be one of them. In no way does this reflect on the ordinary people of that country.

Davidh I'm not suggesting that creative arts will be the entire solution. I suspect that you didn't read the paper in the link that I attached in my earlier post. It comes from the Creative Industries Council whose Council members are leading figureheads drawn from across the creative and digital industries including television and film, advertising, architecture, design, video games, fashion, music, arts and culture, and publishing.

Your idea that the "arts" require large subsidies is rather misleading. Obviously the prestigious companies get large subsidies but then they bring in tourists.

Museums are also supported financially but entry is free.They too bring in the tourists.

We are supposed to be a great nation and one way in which this is demonstrated to the rest of the world is through our creativity.

I did, MaizeD ... upthread.

message Urmstongran Thu 16-Apr-20 14:07:40

I am absolutely horrified that so many people are turning round and pointing a finger at China as if they deliberately let this virus loose

Or was it an accident MaizieD?
Perhaps something awful went wrong and the virus escaped?
Hence the scramble to cover up?

Sorry, Ug, missed your reply. Thanks for clarifying.

As far as China and the virus is concerned there is an unpleasant tone to the accusations flying around.

I think that what's done is done; there's nothing we can do to alter things so what is the point of the blame game?

I wonder how people would feel if it were the UK that was the origin of the virus and the target of suspicion?

The point is that the Chinese government can do as they please, when and how as they please as they, like Russia don't have to worry about elections or public opinion! That is a weakness in democracies which they exploit to the full! No one is talking about racist feelings towards Chinese people! Its their government that is the issue not the populace

What 'point' would that be, Jabberwok?

I have a strong suspicion that any country in the same position, i.e. was the originator of a deadly virus, would have initially tried to cover it up in the hopes that they could control it. But China had to come clean in the end, as would any other country have done. Democracy has very little to do with it IMO.

^ I wonder how people would feel if it were the UK that was the origin of the virus and the target of suspicion?^

Again, maybe I’m totally naive MaizieD but if this virus had leaked from say Porton Down I’d like to think our government would have shut the U.K. down. No incomings and no outgoings. And quarantined us lot PDQ.

You?

You might like to think that Ug, but you absolutely cannot be certain.

With our current government I think it would be highly unlikely..

Anyway, why are you speculating about something that is completely unproven?

Strange how I was jeered at for thinking the virus may have come from the Wuhan laboratory. Other people are now posting this as a novel idea.