Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter

And not by me,

Nor me! but some will have

re Churchills statue ,are any of you aware of this mans past,that not only was he involved in the Bengali tragedy he was in charge when 150 000 Kenyans were put in concentration camps ,beaten raped and used as forced labour ....good old boy eh? Different times? Not so different when many of us have heard from grandparents about this and his other horrendous acts .Maybe the "whitewash" of his character was such a success that people only see the Churchill of WW11 ....even then he did things that were beyond belief .Please educate yourselves,seems your schools missed a hell of alot of the bad stuff off the curriculum!!

Trisher like for example maternity services where the mortality rate is much higher
Are you talking about maternity services in the NHS or in the USA?

Hooray, the Penny Lane sign in Liverpool has been wiped clean.

janeainsworth

Trisher like for example maternity services where the mortality rate is much higher
Are you talking about maternity services in the NHS or in the USA?

It’s pretty world wide.

In the U.K. the mortality rate is 5 times higher.

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/mbrrace-bame

Paddyanne, my mum never liked him and called him a warmonger, but she spoke in admiration of Oliver Cromwell ?

We were never taught about the war in school as it had not long finished when I started. Politics was never discussed but bloomin' Divinity bored us all to death. RE, whatever it's called today.

Thank you for the link Summerlove.
That’s shocking.

janeainsworth

Thank you for the link Summerlove.
That’s shocking.

You’re very welcome
You’ll find these studies all over. It’s horrific.

Summerlice, as I said deal with the real problem,. America and police brutality, but you won’t because they wouldn’t stand for it so it’s easier to shift the blame to uk. It’s cowardly doing what’s been done in a pandemic, you have put our police here in an impossible position, I hope you never need one., As for tearing up our heritage let’s hope it’s made a criminal offence.

Funny how you never read posts from the old freedom fighter grannies on here having a go at the atrocities of the Chinese Communist Party or Putins Nationalist Russia.

Sparkling

Summerlice, as I said deal with the real problem,. America and police brutality, but you won’t because they wouldn’t stand for it so it’s easier to shift the blame to uk. It’s cowardly doing what’s been done in a pandemic, you have put our police here in an impossible position, I hope you never need one., As for tearing up our heritage let’s hope it’s made a criminal offence.

It’s all completely interconnected. You are an intelligent woman, so I doubt you don’t know that. One is because of the other.

Imagine if the US had decided “nope, that war is Europe’s problem”.

“Tearing up our heritage”? Perspective is needed here.

Keith Blakelock is still remembered many years after his brutal murder in 1985. But what about the many black men who have died in police custody in the decades following - how many people recall "their" names and how they died?

Some extracts from newspaper articles:

"In July 2017, Darren Cumberbatch died of multiple organ failure in hospital after being arrested by police at a probation hostel in Nuneaton, west Midlands. His family say the electrician’s body was covered in bruises and “strange marks” when they visited him in hospital............. An inquest heard he was punched 15 times by officers, and that police restraint, including use of Tasers and batons, contributed to Cumberbatch’s death. The coroner said the level of restraint used by Warwickshire Police was “excessive”.

"In 1998, Christopher Alder, a former British army paratrooper, was injured during a fight and ended up in hospital. He was then arrested for a breach of the peace and taken to Queens Gardens police station in Hull. CCTV footage shows him lying face down on the floor of the station, motionless, with his trousers around his ankles. Officers stand around laughing while he lies there, dying, for 10 minutes. A coroner's jury in 2000 returned a verdict that Alder was unlawfully killed. In 2002 five police officers went on trial charged with Alder's manslaughter and misconduct in public office, but were acquitted on the orders of the judge. In 2006 an Independent Police Complaints Commission report concluded that four of the officers present in the custody suite when Alder died were guilty of the "most serious neglect of duty" and “unwitting racism”. "

"In 2011, Kingsley Burrell died while detained by police at a mental health unit in Birmingham. An inquest found that prolonged restraint had been a significant factor. Again, three officers prosecuted for lying under oath were found not guilty."

In 2000, Zahid Mubarek was murdered by his racist cellmate Robert Stewart, who had a history of violence, at Feltham Young Offenders Institution. They were housed together despite the fact that Stewart’s hostility to BAME people was widely known.

"Sean Rigg, 40, was a physically fit musician -- but died from cardiac arrest and asphyxia after being detained by police in Brixton, south London in 2008. He suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and after emergency calls responding to reports of aggressive behavior, he was restrained and transported to a local police station in a van, dying shortly after arrival. The police involved in Rigg's arrest were cleared of allegations of misconduct last year, despite an inquiry ruling their methods of restraint had "more than minimally contributed to his death."

This month, Simeon Francis was found dead in a cell in Devon. The circumstances surrounding this incident are not yet clear.

"Research commissioned by the Sentencing Council published in January 2017 proved in effect that if you placed a white man and a BAME man in the same predicament with the same previous history, with the same or similar evidence, the BAME man was more likely to be stopped, arrested, charged, denied bail, convicted and sentenced to prison."

Despite various reports showing quite clearly that non-white people are as discriminated against in our justice system as they are in every other public arena, virtually nothing has been done to address this very serious issue. Is it any wonder frustration and anger has boiled up and spilled over into violent protests in this country and all over the globe.

Awful incidents Eloethan but it must be remembered that out of something like 164 deaths in police custody, 140 were white men.Some of those will also be awful incidents too.
Who will recall them and how they died?

That’s 164 deaths in the last ten years.

Perhaps Eloethan will research all those 140 for you, lemongrove, and inform us of their circumstances. It seems the deaths of white people arrested by white policemen and dying in police custody are under reported.

I think that all deaths in police custody are shocking, and need to be looked at equally. Most will perhaps be from natural causes or exacerbated by drink or drugs, but there are some of both black and white men that stem from negligence or cruelty.

quizqueen

If you want to learn about privilege watch this it's the best explanation I have seen www.facebook.com/heirjordans/videos/2974066015993831/UzpfSTUyMzIxNTQ1NjoxMDE2NDExMTM3MzkwMDQ1Nw/

Kapitan I dont live in China or Russia so the Statues on our streets are the ones that concern me .What the Russians or the Chinese do is up to them ,I dont believe in interfering n another countries internal policies .That way lies disaster ,surely we've learned that at least by now !

Of course, the main concern is whether the treatment by the police of those that died in custody contributed to or was the cause of their death - be they black or white. All suspicious deaths should be properly investigated and action taken if wrongdoing is found.

The point is, although white deaths in custody are higher, black deaths are disproportionate to the number of black people in this country.

Comment on Johnson’s intervention about Churchill’s statue

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
It takes a true demagogue to frame a protest about the structural discrimination against - indeed, the killing of - black men and women as an attack on patriotism.

Comment on twitter.

The Statue of Winston Churchill has been vandalised during nearly every mass protest in London, for years. May Day protests, anti capitalism demo's, Student protests. Where were the 'Football Lads' then? Where was the
@bluecollartory_
group?

Nowhere. Because white people did it.

Someone said this and it makes perfect sense.

I don't really give a toss what randoms do to statutes. Symbols provoke symbolic responses; that's their very point.

Why don't we act on Grenfell, on Windrush, on the Hostile Environment? Where is Johnson on these issues? Shouldn't we be talking about that?

This is History repeating itself but in the 21st century , the black glove symbol is not new , in the 60`s it was worn as Black Power.
American History is littered with it , with Dr Martin Luther King for example so its not new to the older generation of today .
Portrayed in show like " Motown the Musical " where segregation in theatres to place .
Mick