Gransnet forums

News & politics

Institutional racism in the police?

(569 Posts)
trisher Sat 27-Jun-20 09:31:51

The news about the murdered sisters in London, the police's first lack of action then the photographs taken at the scene must have shocked everyone. The dignified and measured interview their mother has given couldn't fail to impress. So is she right can these photographs be compared with those taken at lynchings in the US? And is this the real proof that there is still racism in the police?

Davidhs Fri 10-Jul-20 20:21:23

Susie I apologize I didn’t read your post a page or two back I was assuming that qualifications were the be all and end all, incorrectly.
My reaction was to your post of 21.51 yesterday accusing me of discrimination, all employers take into account all aspects of a candidates CV
Mansplaining and Patronising, I’m accused of that frequently, water off a ducks back, pretty standard form from feminists.

Galaxy Fri 10-Jul-20 21:33:46

I know those awful people who set up domestic violence shelters, campaigned to make rape within marriage illegal, campaigned to stop men putting cameras up women skirts. Those awful feminists.

Anniebach Fri 10-Jul-20 22:17:07

Men also supported those needs

Summerlove Fri 10-Jul-20 22:22:02

Anniebach

Men also supported those needs

Of course they did. Women can’t do anything by themselves. They need men to help them. ???

Galaxy Fri 10-Jul-20 22:30:47

Dear god.

Eloethan Fri 10-Jul-20 23:38:20

davidhs
Because you had either not read or not read properly Susie's post, you then proceeded to explain to everyone that an employer wants to recruit the best person for the job, that qualifications, experience, etc., should not be the only criteria for choosing a particular candidate and that recruiting employees is an expensive and time-consuming business so it is essential to make the right choice.

Your explanation was not relevant to the issue of systemic discrimination in recruitment - and I think the vast majority of Gransnetters fully understand how the interview process works - I expect several of them have had to carry out interviews themselves.

I think perhaps this was why someone used the terms "mansplaining" and "patronising" - which you assigned, in a rather dismissive way, to "feminists".

The word "feminism", according to the dictionary, means:

"The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes".

The Law Society website makes this very interesting point that I think should be borne in mind when considering how necessary feminism was, and still is:

"We’re all familiar with the saying ‘men are from Mars and women are from Venus’, less well known is that, not so long ago, women weren’t actually considered people at all!

That’s right, in a ruling which prevented women from qualifying as solicitors, the 1914 Court of Appeal case Bebb v Law Society found that the entire sex of women failed to fall within the definition of ‘persons’.

Feminists don't deserve the sneers and disapproval of those who portray them as some sort of malign force that unnecessarily raises issues of no importance and stirs up trouble. Because of them, women now have the right to:

vote
enter professions such as the law and accounting
practice their profession upon marriage
serve on a jury
act as a magistrate
open a bank account
obtain a mortgage without having to secure a male guarantor
buy a drink in a pub
work on the London Stock Exchange
have access to the birth control pill as an unmarried woman
have equal pay for work of broadly equal skill and value;
continue to have control of their own assets after marriage
divorce an abusive husband

............... and so the list goes on.

No doubt after women won the vote there were many men - and women too - who thought that was the end of the matter. And so it would have been if feminists hadn't campaigned vigorously to achieve all the above rights - which are just basic human rights.

Furret Sat 11-Jul-20 06:57:17

Remind me which century we live in someone please?

Iam64 Sat 11-Jul-20 08:56:45

Davidhs - can I suggest you buy yourself some diversity training so you can drag yourself into the 21st century.

Many gransnet contributors will be familiar with interviewing for members of staff. My training included awareness of diversity and that was almost 20 years ago, its hardly a new concept.

Yes, it was women who worked for votes for women, and for the equalities that eventually came our way. Some men supported the fight, many other dismissed the monstrous regiment and saw us as a threat.

Your dismissal of 'feminists' has been well responded to by Eloethan, so I won't repeat that.

Iam64 Sat 11-Jul-20 08:58:02

Sorry trisher, this seems to have wandered a long way from institutional racism. It's covering diversity though.

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jul-20 08:58:25

‘Mansplaining and Patronising, I’m accused of that frequently, water off a ducks back, pretty standard form from feminists.‘

I can’t begin to imagine why David ?????

Your comment about feminism says all I need to know about the attitude to women demonstrated in your posts to me ( although I’d already guessed)

Davidhs Sat 11-Jul-20 09:14:38

Elothan

That sounds exactly like “ Womansplaining to me, women can do and be anything they want it’s their choice and I fully support that. Women have to opportunity to take control of their lives and many do just that, those that don’t blame others for their misfortune.

Many women make the wrong life decisions which affect their whole lives and it’s always someone else’s fault, that’s not likely to change.

That’s the way it is ladies, you are not going to change your opinion and I’m not going to change mine.

Iam64 Sat 11-Jul-20 09:16:20

No, it's clear you lack the capacity to listen to the voice of those of us who don't have the privilege of being a male white individual. Totally unaware of white male privilege.

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jul-20 09:26:39

Well David there’s only one response to your last post which is ‘I rest my case’. Now I must get back to the kitchen after I’ve ironed Mr SW’s underpants.

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jul-20 09:28:18

Just replace references to women in his posts with the word Jews

Chewbacca Sat 11-Jul-20 09:30:34

Many women make the wrong life decisions which affect their whole lives and it’s always someone else’s fault, that’s not likely to change.

David, that's one of the most crass posts I've ever read. Really, that's a shameful thing to say.

Callistemon Sat 11-Jul-20 09:38:18

Chewbacca

^Many women make the wrong life decisions which affect their whole lives and it’s always^ someone else’s fault, that’s not likely to change.

David, that's one of the most crass posts I've ever read. Really, that's a shameful thing to say.

David

Men, on the other hand, always make the right decisions of course.
It's time we females realised that men are infallible. We need to be re-programmed.

I understand that the Stepford Programme is very good.

Galaxy Sat 11-Jul-20 09:45:55

70 % of violent crime is carried out be men, 98% of violent sexual assault is committed by men - those stupid women making the wrong choices though.

GagaJo Sat 11-Jul-20 09:47:13

What I take from David's words is that it's REALLY worrying that he is in charge (or plays a role) in recruitment when 1) He has such obvious bias and 2) Diversity of employees is not considered.

Galaxy Sat 11-Jul-20 09:47:17

But iam64 is right this is moving away from institutional racism. We need to ignore. I am useless at that grin

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jul-20 09:49:18

Chewbacca

Well actually, if we're being completely fair and non biased to everyone, irrespective of race or gender, it wasn't really necessary to ask David whether he was a man, was it? His opinions and experiences are as valid, even if you disagree with them, no matter what his gender is, wouldn't you say?

David’s opinions imo are completely predicated upon his predefined attitudes towards and beliefs about women ( as we’ve now seen even more clearly) Such opinions are not valid - which s not saying he can’t express them. Tbh I don’t understand the concept of a ‘valid’ opinion. But then,I’m only a woman, so what do I know?

MaizieD Sat 11-Jul-20 09:50:34

Well, that was an interesting spat!

And all because David failed to understand the significance of the research posted (for the umpteenth time grin ) by Eloethan.

Mansplaining about selecting the best candidate at interview completely missed the point that the people with non British names but exactly the same qualifications and experience, didn't even get an interview. hmm

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jul-20 09:51:17

Why do you want to move away from sexism Galaxy ? If a thread moves into that, are we supposed to ignore it and allow such posts to go unchallenged? ( rhetorical questions)

suziewoozie Sat 11-Jul-20 09:54:11

But it wasn’t just that * Maizie* was it? He thought he could, from his lofty make perch, call me naive when he hadn’t even bothered to ( or was incapable of) reading my post correctly. Bloody cheek.

Galaxy Sat 11-Jul-20 09:57:53

I dont know suzie to be honest, I am not sure what it achieves. I didnt ignore it, the exact opposite in fact, but we arent going to change his view on feminism are we, I think there might be more important fights. I might be a bit tired of trying to convince people on the internet that women are human beings.

Anniebach Sat 11-Jul-20 10:18:23

A man has given his opinions, shock horror , bring back hanging