Institutional racism in the police?

lemongrove

Have you not read the post by Chewbacca on police procedure for missing persons?
The police receive so many calls on this subject that they have to prioritise.
Why shouldn’t friends and family mount their own search when they knew where the women had been.....I certainly would have done, and so would most worried people.

Spot on!

Furret enjoy your walk.
I doubt anyone will bother about your post.

Chewbacca

^2 black women are regarded as the sort who would go missing for a night. (because that's how^ black women behave

Pure conjecture and interpretation on your part trisher; no one said that, no one on here thinks that. Your determined to see racism on here aren't you?

Chewbacca after I posted what the mother had said
Why make up statements like "2 black women are regarded as the sort who would go missing for a night. (because that's how black women behave)? There's no need to add made up "facts" to this tragedy, their sad enough as they are without you adding your own fictionalised "must have beens".
What the mother said again
Smallman attacked the police response when her daughters were reported missing, accusing officers of “making assumptions”, and she said: “I knew instantly why they didn’t care. They didn’t care because they looked at my daughter’s address and thought they knew who she was. A black woman who lives on a council estate.”
Would you like to accuse her of making things up?

Chewbacca you have entirely missed my point.

The only point that's immediately apparent Furret is the sharp one at the end of your tongue.

Anyway you can all have a moan as I’m off to seek more intellectually challenging company and walk my dog Furret - from some of your posts I think you may possibly find what you seek.

Trisher You are losing all credibility now. Why are you so determined to find racism everywhere? I doubt anyone on here disputes racism exists in the police but not to the extent that you would have us believe. Why don’t you accept that white people also experience injustice and unfairness?

I have been a member of gransnet for a few years but rarely post, partly because by the time I get chance to post the discussion has moved on (rightly so) but also because of the pointless, petty name calling when some people disagree.
Intellectually stimulating? I don't think so.

Jog on trisher; your mendacity is far outweighing anything of value that you may have to say on this matter. I've made my opinions clear; I neither want, nor feel the need, to discredit and lie about other posters and what I interpret that have said; my opinions and beliefs are strong enough without the need to do.

You're clearly pissed off because I've pointed out that your personal animosity towards another poster is becoming a little too obvious and it's beginning to diminish the value of your posts. Your problem to deal with.

Chewbacca I have made no personal attacks on anyone unless you count asking if not seeing pictures of a murder and was it a lynching? is a personal attack.
You have accused me of 'conjecture' and 'fictionalising' when what I actually did was paraphrase the mother's opinion which is apparently to be ignored. One of the reasons I would suggest that institutional racism prospers.
As for the personal attacks the first response on this thread was an attempt to bring into the discussion personal animosity which I always try to avoid. Unfortunately for some people on GN the only response to any discussion is to support whoever cries the loudest. It is pathetic in grown up people.
I have I hope always presented my opinions, which I know many disagree with with the evidence I have used to come to them. If people choose to ignore that evidence it is entirely up to them. If they wish to personalise the discussion that is up to them as well. I choose not to do so.

My post trisher is referring to was my post, a question which has caused several complaints of being insensitive and not being in the spirit on the site , it was in no way a personal attack , just a question

trisher you try to avoid personal attacks yet call a group of
Grans ‘ nasty, embittered old crones’, that wasn’t personal?

Cross threads Annie it's against the rules on GN.

Why don’t you accept that white people also experience injustice and unfairness?

That is the case but not really relevant to whether or not there was racist motives on this particular case.

I am now contemplating asking for this thread to be withdrawn because I think those who wish to make personal disputes the highlight and subject of this thread dishonour and trivialise the murders of these two women and the very real concerns about the police that the mother and family have. I'm going to take time and think about it.

trisher, you said Chewbacca I posted my opinion when you claimed it had no basis I posted the mother's statement which you ignored.

That statement was a lie. I did no such thing. I, and other posters, have pointed out my original and earlier posts on this subject And they prove that you either have the wrong poster in mind or you're lying but you have conveniently skirted around addressing this by raising a totally different issue.

You have, without a shadow of doubt "expressed your opinions". So have I. And I haven't felt the need to lie about, or reconfigure yours whilst doing so.

The mother of the victims is very upset, grief stricken, of course, and she managed to give a dignified and moving interview on the radio.
What you are doing though trisher is accepting as fact what this poor lady assumed ( that the police wouldn’t look for the sisters because they knew they were black.)
This thread shouldn’t degenerate into name calling, but sadly it has by some ( who possibly agree with your take on things.)
Nor should the thread be deleted because you are not agreed with universally. It’s a tragic news item that can be commented on by all. There have been no racist remarks throughout this thread.

lemongrove if you read what I posted again you will see that the reason I would ask for this thread to be deleted is that it has deteriorated into a series of personal attacks which I am trying to stay out of. I thought the mother was very calm and collected although grief stricken and I accepted her opinion about why the police didn't search for her daughters (remember this was 36 hours of there being no contact) and why members of the family had to look for them. I don't live in London, I don't have contact with the Metropolitan police but I would imagine the daughter who was a senior social worker did, and I would imagine she recounted those contacts to her mother, who probably suspected that someting had happened to her daughters but trusted the police to find them. Then realised they would not.
I don't particularly care if people on GN agree with me I do care that this mother's opinions are treated with such disrespect.

Opinions are not facts trisher as you well know.There is no disrespect for the mother’s opinions in any of these posts on the thread.
Time to move on now I think.

Her opinion was that police officers didn't search for her daughters because they were black and gave a council estate as their address lemongrove when I paraphrased that I was accused of 'fictionalising' and 'conjecture'. Is that respect? Would someone like to acknowledge that this mother might know more about what she is talking about than most on GN.

Something I am unsure about, was the park party near the home of the two sisters ?

trisher I really think you need to move on from this, otherwise you are doing the thing you claim to dislike, that posters are getting bogged down by personal bickering.

Let us hope that the police find the culprit quickly and the public can then understand all the details of the case.

Another excuse for ignoring what the mother said lemongrove why not just admit she might be right.

I may be missing something but I haven't seen in this thread, the kind of unpleasant racially stereotyped views occasionally seen on other gransnet discussions.
The consensus is clear, that the officers who took and shared inappropriate photographs need investigating. We all anticipate the two who took and shared the photographs to lose their jobs and if its possible to convict them of an offence, for that to happen. The same goes for the people they shared the photographs with.

Chewbacca posted information about the police procedures in cases where adults are reported missing. There is rarely an immediate search initiated because the majority of adults return, or contact loved ones. The family did what most families would do, reported them missing and started their own search. The mother of these two young women has been remarkable in her responses. I haven't seen any posts that don't treat the mother with respect.

The police reflect society, their recruitment processes are unlikely to weed out every racist or other unsuitable candidate. Their training programmes aim to include diversity as part of every course. On the little information we have, the officers and others in this case need togo. Let's not assume they are representative of the Met or other forces

Thank you Iam64.

I think that is a fair summing up, Iam64.

This case is under investigation in more ways than one; the main one will be to find the culprit(s) and bring them to justice and to construct a water tight case to ensure a conviction, which could be hampered by the fact that the crime scene was compromised by those searching and also the two rogue police officers themselves.

If the police force is, as a body, institutionally racist then I do not think that those police officers would have been dealt with as swiftly as they were and will need to be if that were the case.

There will also be investigations, I would think, into why a search was not undertaken when the women were first reported missing and into whether or not this would be normal or unusual procedure.

Until then, anything else is just conjecture, much of it fanning the flames.

That is the case but not really relevant to whether or not there was racist motives on this particular case

I disagree Madgran. It’s relevant because if the sisters had been white nothing would be being discussed.

Although the murders are horrific the discussion is ‘have the police behaved differently because of the victims’ colour?’ I don’t believe they have although I’m not sure in regard to the selfies.