Institutional racism in the police?

anyway, sorry OP; you probably want to get back to the wider subject that you started.
it seems to me that some people do not seem to grasp the concept of institutional racism.
they get very defensive about the individual they know in the police. which is not the point.
i can see how frustrating all this is.
it's like going round in circles. how can anything be changed, improved, if it is not even recognised or understood.
there was a similar discussion recently about black women and maternity care.
i see the govt now has recognised that they are at higher risk, and are sometimes not taken seriously enough in what they report, so complications occur. i heard a consultant make that very point on the radio a couple of days ago.

see the govt now has recognised that they are at higher risk, and are sometimes not taken seriously enough in what they report, so complications occur. i heard a consultant make that very point on the radio a couple of days ago.

Oh good, I missed that.

trisher - I really don't need reminding of the quote thanks.

There is always the feeling after an awful event that ‘something should be done’ but how about we all take a deep breath and allow the police to try and crack this case without
Finger pointing and disapproval when they are the ones who have to tease out the facts and not us.
It’s a large public space ( the park) and as well as those at the party, there could have been anyone lurking about, or innocently walking their dog late at night and enjoying the cool air.
This isn’t about being ‘defensive’ of the police, because where there is wrong doing it will be rooted out, but of understanding that the police get things right far more than they get things wrong.

Agree lemon

How about we discuss the racism in the police? The crime may or may not be solved. The racism will remain.

I'm a bit confused by this. I thought there was a news report saying that someone had already been apprehended for the murder of the two women, but just now on the news I think they said the search continues.

When there is evidence of corruption, discrimination or negligence should we say "they get it right more often than they get it wrong". That may well be the case, but when we are talking about people who are supposed to be upholding the rule of law it is especially important that they are seen to act within the law too and apply the law equally to everyone. Even if the vast majority of lawyers, doctors, nurses, police officers, etc, etc, behave impeccably, that does not minimise the need for effective action to be taken against those who do not - and further training undertaken where necessary.

When incidents such as the following happen, it is quite understandable that there is continuing concern about racism (whether conscious or unconscious) in the police:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/28/black-teenager-on-family-cycle-ride-injured-during-aggressive-police-arrest
Guardian June 2020
"Huugo Boateng was taking part in a charity bike ride with his father along the River Lea in north London when he says he was grabbed from his bike by a plainclothes police officer, threatened with a stun gun and fell face first into thorny bushes.

"The 13-year-old told the Observer: “I’d turned around to see if my dad had caught up behind me, and suddenly this man came out of nowhere. He was crazy angry and shouting. I got scared because I thought he might be mugging me or trying to give me corona so I ran, but there was nowhere to go but in the bushes.”

"While he was down on the ground, the teenager says the officer pointed a Taser at him and threatened to shoot. The officer then arrested Huugo and put him in handcuffs. Further down the towpath, his father, Andrew, 43, was told to get on his knees and put his hands behind his back. Andrew was also handcuffed. The two were detained, suspected to have been involved in a stabbing in the area.

...." Huugo suffered lacerations to his face and bruises on his legs, and spent that night sleeping on his parents’ bedroom floor, anxious not to be alone.

...................."The officers said they were responding to a stabbing in a nearby park

The arrests were partly filmed by river boat resident and photographer, Louise Paton who had responded to Andrew’s pleas for someone to film what was going on. She described the scene as:

“racial profiling at its worst. The mood was defensive, borderline aggressive and patronising,” she said. “I was disgusted. It really drove the issue [of racism] home for me. The way they spoke to Andrew, the way they treated him and kept him in handcuffs so long when he could prove so quickly he was completely innocent and the wrong person. It was just so disappointing to see.”

"The family were visited by a community officer later that evening. “Huugo didn’t want them to come in so they stayed on the doorstep and asked if we were OK,” said Andrew, who works at City University. He is also active in local projects including coaching a youth football team and volunteering for the outreach programme Kickoff@3 , which is co-run by a black Metropolitan police officer, Michael Wallace.

“I couldn’t vouch for a more humble and more dedicated member of the community,” said Wallace. “The irony is that Kickoff@3 is about building good relationships with youth and the police, and Andy is instrumental in helping with that programme. The bike ride he was doing was organised by us – we were raising money for a homeless charity and a domestic violence one.”

This incident is widely reported in other papers but the Guardian has a video link of the footage taken by Ms Paton.

Eleothan I think a 36 year old man was arrested at the start of the investigation but has been let go.
Handcuffing black males who are stopped and searched seems to be the norm, even when they are cooperating

i resisted posting that article about the boy and his father on the charity cycle ride.
i expected a lot of push-back on here.
which doesn't say much for my moral fibre.
esp as it sums up the issues under discussion, as the onlooker attested.
imagine what it feels like to be so often treated like a second-class citizen in your own country.

No need to resist posting anything on here, I doubt you would get anyone who disagreed with you saying it was a very upsetting happening for the man and his son.
Just to add though, a member of my own family had a similar ordeal about twenty years ago ( and he is white!) but he looked like a description of a suspect and was in the same vicinity.It happens, as does police raids on wrong houses in the middle of the night.

Stop and search had to be reinstated due to the huge number of younger men carrying knives.

I was woken up at 3am by police hammering on my door. When I opened the door they asked for a man, who lived further down the road.

The names of the houses were similar. Mistakes are made. The man they had come for was white.

My goodness - there are still people who will jump in with stories from twenty years ago about such incidents happening to white people.

Of course, misinformation and misidentification of people and/or properties can happen to anyone. However, I think there hasn't been much evidence that such incidents happen to white people on anything other than a very rare basis.

On the other hand, I think many non-white people (especially young people) would be able to recount several recent instances where they have been stopped on the street or in their cars - and have been treated in a less than courteous and respectful way.

If you see the photo of the boy involved in this particular incident it is quite obvious he is only young. It was said that the father and his son were thought to match the description of two black males on bikes witnessed at the scene of a stabbing. In north London there are many black people, and some of them on bikes. It may be reasonable to approach a person seen in the general vicinity of a criminal incident, who might conceivably match the description of the perpetrator, and politely ask some questions. But is it reasonable to jump out at someone in an aggressive and threatening way - especially a young person? The woman who witnessed and filmed the incident thought the behaviour of the officers concerned was "disappointing" and "disgusting" and she perceived it as "racist".

Mistakes are made.

Yes they are but all the statistics show that more are made with black people than with white.

It is always possible to find counter stories but they are not relevant and do not "balance things out!". Statistics do!

Statistics also show a faster "escalation" in such cases with black people

I do wonder why it is that people aren't prepared to accept that there may be racism in the police force they are after all only people. It is always difficult to adjust to people who are different to us and we all make judgemnets about people, sometimes because of the way they dress, speak or behave. The fact that they are a different colour is just another difference. It is there and it can be dealt with but there has to be an acknowledgement first.

I don't think that anyone is refusing to acknowledge, or accept, that there may be racism in the police force trisher; but what they're trying to point out is that not all police officers are racist. And therein lies the discussion.

We listened to the interview yesterday and then read about the case.
My DH was in tears when he heard what these 2 policemen had done and the lack of 'investigation' about the crime. My DH's words to me were "There are times when I feel ashamed to be a human being". We were sickened because of the behaviour of the 2 policemen.

Three things shocked us:
- The policemen taking selfies of themselves with the two dead women in the shot.
- Them posting it to others and public via social media.
- A boyfriend of one of the women, after searching the area for 10 mins, found the murder weapon and her glasses.

These two policemen are currently on bail.

These were not photos taken for evidence.
Two women missing should have prompted a much quicker response.
What search was done of the area by the police? Very little as the boyfriend found it!

The women were reported missing Saturday, their bodies found Sunday , this was not a slow response

The family decided to search for the missing women themselves and the bodies were found by the boyfriend of one of the women.

Who has suggested that all police officers are racist Chewbacca ? But if many, many black people from all walks of life - including academics and other professionals - have had experience of being treated with suspicion and disrespect in encounters with the police there is obviously something not right.

The women were reported last seen in an open area at night. They were uncontactable for 36 hours. They had not returned home. They were at risk, but as the mother said they were black and lived on a council estate.

Something to remember. 48% of stop and search is made by the Metropolitan police. There is far less in the rest of England and Wales.

In some areas the difference in ethnicity of stop and search is negligible.

Not all police are racist.

And where did this atrocity take place? Was it London?

A report from a police officer who has faced racism in the Met. If she has faced racism from her own colleagues, it isn’t difficult to believe that racism is also an issue for the public.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53224394

It seems that from the statistics there may be a problem in the Met with racism. London isn't the whole of the UK so all police officers shouldn't be tarnished with what goes on in that city.

Did my husband face racism when he worked at the Met and in Durham, he was called Taff.