Eat Out to Help Out.

WhitewaveMk2 I have a problem with Universities charging young people for a degree course which has little or no chance of helping them into employment.

Tony Blair’s idea of at least 50% of youngsters going to Uni was unrealistic in my opinion, just a way of getting them off of the dole to make his unemployment statistics look better.

WhitewaveMk2 I couldn’t afford to go to University, I went straight out to work, left school on the Friday and into work on Monday.

Whitewavemark2

When we were undergrads there wasn’t the choice there is now in any case.

What was your degree gg13? I bet it was just a big standard one like history or English. Nothing wrong with that, but a lot of degrees these days fit with future employment.

My GS is doing an electrical engineering degree which will ensure he is eminently employable in his chosen field.
Nursing degree is another, etc

Indded! AFAIK some kind of vocational education is a compulsory element of of even "academic" degrees such as history. I know my daughter, who did a degree in history and economics, had to do a vocational application module. It was also emphasised that many of the skills needed for history and economics are generic and can be used in non-specialist fields.

I’m of the opinion that education is never wasted, whatever the course.

Unemployment up until recently has been minuscule so not sure your argument holds water.

Where I do agree is that some courses are not of the best standard, but I think it is up to teachers and parents to point this out and young people given as much information as possible, if these courses get no takers they will disappear.

1Whitewavemark2, I accept there is much still to be said for obtaining University degrees that will bring good well paid career employment on completion.

However, if the necessary qualifications can be obtained to secure such employment in any industry without gaining all the debt that is so associated with university placements these days, then that is perhaps a better way to proceed?

growstuff there are many excellent degree courses out there, unfortunately there are plenty of not so good ones.

GrannyGravy13

WhitewaveMk2 I have a problem with Universities charging young people for a degree course which has little or no chance of helping them into employment.

Tony Blair’s idea of at least 50% of youngsters going to Uni was unrealistic in my opinion, just a way of getting them off of the dole to make his unemployment statistics look better.

Just like raising the school leaving age to 18 and compelling young people to do sham apprenticeships. It keeps 16-18 year olds (and many 18-24 year olds) out of the unemployment stats.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff there are many excellent degree courses out there, unfortunately there are plenty of not so good ones.

Can you name them?

Grandad1943

1Whitewavemark2, I accept there is much still to be said for obtaining University degrees that will bring good well paid career employment on completion.

However, if the necessary qualifications can be obtained to secure such employment in any industry without gaining all the debt that is so associated with university placements these days, then that is perhaps a better way to proceed?

I would prefer that no debt was incurred.

I really believe that the country is better off with a highly educated workforce.

However, I do think that if a person is not academically inclined then the choice should be much much wider than is currently the case.

I think Germany stands as a good model.

growstuff there are lots of examples on the Internet if you care to look.

My own feeling is that it was a mistake to turn the old Colleges of Higher Education and Polytechnics into universities. I know why it was done. The idea was to give vocational education parity of esteem with universities.

I reject absolutely that Oxbridge degrees are necessarily superior to a degree from anywhere else, but there is no doubt that they are still seen as prestigious. (Look at our cabinet ministers!) It really depends what skills are required. For example, I wouldn't trust an Oxford classicist to understand the details of the sea and tides, knowledge of which is needed to run a surf school. I wouldn't recommend Oxbridge to an aspiring engineer or doctor either.

The Colleges of Education and polytechnics often offered a very valuable route for mid-career people, who wanted/needed a more theoretical grounding to progress. The UK suffered for far too long from amateur time-servers, who thought they knew it all.

The UK really needs to look at a country such as Germany, where advanced vocational education has arguably been one of the main reason's for the country's industrial success.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff there are lots of examples on the Internet if you care to look.

I don't care to look. I thought you'd be able to give me some examples, as you made the claim.

"I really believe that the country is better off with a highly educated workforce.

However, I do think that if a person is not academically inclined then the choice should be much much wider than is currently the case.

I think Germany stands as a good model."

I agree with those comments WWm2 though I would say "a highly trained and motivated" workforce too.

Germany is a good example. France also. A friend's daughter went to catering college and is now a sommelier at a Joel Robuchon restaurant in Geneva. Her husband is head patissier. They have no degrees, but they have highly regarded jobs as have most waiters in France.
Many British youngsters with a Mickey Mouse degree feel they are more worthy, so how can we encourage them to feel proud about jobs which don't necessitate going to university?

Interesting post growstuff and not far off my own feelings. The thing is an Oxbridge degree or a Russell uni degree will get graduates in the door ahead of others. Their selection procedures obviously weed out many of the so so candidates who are then offered places at other good unis, but that is where it should end. There's no point having third or fourth rate unis picking up those at the bottom of the pile when would be far better suited to and excel in other establishments, like Grandad just mentioned.

Growstuff According to the "London Economic" the top 10 most pointless degrees (as voted by students) are:

1. Acting
2. Outdoor adventure and environment
3. Office skills
4. Film studies
5. Dance / choreography
6. Drama studies
7. Celtic and Anglo Saxon Studies
8. Fashion merchandising
9. Media studies
10. Religious Studies

(yes I googled it - it was either that or make a start on the ironing!)

It was part of an interesting article in which many said they would still be where they are now without a degree.

How many more actors and media people with a degree do we need? Did Richard Burton or Liz have a degree?

Number 10 on the list is the only one I didn't laugh at.

Looking back to my post yesterday (15.45) no one has satisfactorily explained why the hospitality sector has been singled out.

I think it's so that you can all go out for a cheap(ish) meal and get your saving of up to £10 with the semblance of enjoyment. This in the hopes that you'll soon forget the horrors and mistakes of the last few months.

Surely the Chancellor can do better than that.

Crikey, apologies to Richard Burton. He did go to Exeter College, Oxford but only for 6 months I believe.

Oldwoman70

Growstuff According to the "London Economic" the top 10 most pointless degrees (as voted by students) are:

1. Acting
2. Outdoor adventure and environment
3. Office skills
4. Film studies
5. Dance / choreography
6. Drama studies
7. Celtic and Anglo Saxon Studies
8. Fashion merchandising
9. Media studies
10. Religious Studies

(yes I googled it - it was either that or make a start on the ironing!)

It was part of an interesting article in which many said they would still be where they are now without a degree.

I'm not quite sure that one could be a dancer (unless you are talking about Hip Hop and similar) or a choreographer without some sort of formal training. We shared a flat with a dance student back in the early seventies. He went on to form his own company and was also artistic director of the Ballet Rambert. You might of heard of that.

Many of our most famous actors went to RADA, LAMDA or Central or uni. Take a look at the list of Best Actor oscar winners between 1990 and 2020. Only 6 didn't go on to higher education. Of those, one is Italian and one is French.

I have heard that many employers like a degree in religious studies because it teaches people to think. I also read a week or so ago that some employers aren't taking students with degrees because they don't have the right qualities. Many jobs require applicants to be presentable, clearly spoken and able to converse with others on a wide range of topics.

So is it just me that thinks this voucher scheme is to encourage people to eat at Wetherspoons?

Ilovecheese

So is it just me that thinks this voucher scheme is to encourage people to eat at Wetherspoons?

No, it's not.

Ilovecheese

So is it just me that thinks this voucher scheme is to encourage people to eat at Wetherspoons?

Yes it is. He’s besties with Johnson and co.

It is not vouchers, the establishments have to sign up and presumably they then claim the money back. It is not compulsory, it is to help keep the teetering hospitality sector r going. I for one will be supporting my local restaurant and not putting 50% of anything into Wetherspoons. Mind you, it is easy for me to make a grand gesture, as I wouldn't eat there for nothing!

Never been into a spoons no intention of doing so.

I will however continue to support local independent restaurants/tea rooms/ gastropubs as we have done throughout lockdown

GillT57, thank you for your post at 13:37:58 - you said what I was thinking, but better than I would have!