I love the statue that has replaced the slave trader

No sense as opposed to nonsense. But either would do.

well furret I'm sorry that you appear to have anger issues. I'd get them seen to, if I were you.

That's the thing with BLM. If anyone says, well, I don't agree with THAT, the response is 'well, it's a loose organisation'. Rather like if someone said 'I couldn't vote Conservative because they ....(fill in with any Tory policy)' and someone replied 'oh no, we're not THAT kind of tory'.

If you support an organisation, you support the stated aims. Which are pretty loud and clear.

Unfortunately, a lot of people think that, if you don't support BLM, you're a racist. Perhaps they should take a harder look at what BLM stands for.

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well furret I'm sorry that you appear to have anger issues. I'd get them seen to, if I were you.

That's the thing with BLM. If anyone says, well, I don't agree with THAT, the response is 'well, it's a loose organisation'. Rather like if someone said 'I couldn't vote Conservative because they ....(fill in with any Tory policy)' and someone replied 'oh no, we're not THAT kind of tory'.

If you support an organisation, you support the stated aims. Which are pretty loud and clear.

Unfortunately, a lot of people think that, if you don't support BLM, you're a racist. Perhaps they should take a harder look at what BLM stands for.

OK perhaps it would be a good idea to look at the guiding principles and see if we agree as to what they mean.

I’m not pearl clutching Furret just surprised at your outburst. I imagine you’re regretting it already. The heat of the moment and all that. You are very passionate in your views.

I believe in a free and equal society. I deplore racial prejudice.

That's it.

I accept everything in BLM that says that. But I believe it is a left-wing organisation who's main aim is to bring down capitalism. This is from reading their literature.

That's fine, if that's what you want. It's just that I don't. And the trouble is (as I've found already on this thread) that you are not allowed to criticise BLM without people saying you're a racist.

Galaxy

I dont think that's helpful furret. I love the statue but I am very bored with no debate.

Happy to debate. What I won’t stand is hectoring. These sort of demands are techniques used by certain types to deflect the argument.

As for those pearl clutchers who swoon at the odd swear word....

Whitewavemark2, in your post @07:32 today you state that the illegal statue could have been made secure as a response to it being stated it was a public safety hazard.

You then believe that the council tax payers of Bristol should be made to pay to secure a statue that had been placed illegally without any democratic voice being allowed to state whether their tax should be used for such a purpose?

Here we are. What you have to bear in mind is that these have been drawn taking black history and black tradition into account. We can’t look at it with white eyes and understanding only. Indentity is key here.

1. Restorative Justice

We are committed to collectively, lovingly and courageously working vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension all people. As we forge our path, we intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

2. Empathy

We are committed to practicing empathy; we engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

3. Loving Engagement

We are committed to embodying and practicing justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

4. Diversity

We are committed to acknowledging, respecting and celebrating difference(s) and commonalities.

5. Globalism

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black folk who exist in different parts of the world.

6. Queer Affirming

We are committed to fostering a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking or, rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual unless s/he or they disclose otherwise.

7. Trans Affirming

We are committed to embracing and making space for trans brothers and sisters to participate and lead. We are committed to being self-reflexive and doing the work required to dismantle cis-gender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

8. Collective Value

We are guided by the fact all Black lives, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status or location.

9. Intergenerational

We are committed to fostering an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with capacity to lead and learn.

10. Black Families

We are committed to making our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We are committed to dismantling the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” that require them to mother in private even as they participate in justice work.

11. Black Villages

We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable.

12. Unapologetically Black

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a necessary prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

13. Black Women

We are committed to building a Black women affirming space free from sexism, misogyny, and male‐centeredness.

Crossed posts Urm but very kindly put. No I’m not regretting it. I deplore racism in any form.

This is slightly off-thread but shows the kind of racism inherent in so many

“ British Vogue – The magazine’s editor says he was racially profiled after being told yesterday to “use the loading bay” by a security guard as he entered the offices. Edward Enninful, who is black, has been the fashion magazine’s editor-in-chief since 2017. “Today, I was racially profiled by a security guard whilst entering my workplace. I was instructed to use the loading bay. Just because our timelines and weekends are returning to normal, we cannot let the world return to how it was. Change needs to happen now,” he said”

Pearl clutching.? It’s not pearl clutching to expect someone to be able to discuss a subject passionately without resorting to personal insult, just simple good manners.

I’m not totally sure why we have to have any statues at all.
In many cases most of us don’t have a clue who they are.

I recently saw one of a man who came from the village of a friend. I’d never heard of him and she said vaguely “Oh yes, yI think someone from here was famous”.

If it causes such controversy why bother? There is talk of one being made to commemorate Vera Lynn. Lovely woman but why? If the world survives another couple of hundred years people will look at it , scratch their heads and wonder what she did to deserve it.
Then someone else will say that it was said she was cruel to dogs (I’m sure she wasn’t BTW) and down it will come!

I am not sure I entirely agree with that flopen, if you support an organisation you support their stated aims. I think that's led us to some of the entrenched 'tribes' that we are currently witnessing. I support the labour party, some of the beliefs expressed by some in the labour party make me want to weep.

Nanna there was no ‘personal insult’. Could you say why you think that as I’m confused, please.

so, as a white person, I have to be simultaneously be told that I can't possibly understand and AT THE SAME TIME have to understand.
Great.
And, as I have said before, and nobody has answered, apart from to say 'oh that's another BLM'. It also is clearly dedicated to defunding the police, closing prisons, bringing down capitalism.

We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure

Hmmm.......so how will they go about that?

Crossed posts Urm but very kindly put. No I’m not regretting it. I deplore racism in any form.
so racism is defined by people asking questions or disagreeing with you furret? Interesting.

Whitewavemark2

flopen

Here's the manifesto
blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
And it expresses the aim of breaking down the nuclear family and cis gender privilege. So no thank you

It is confusing to many, but Black Lives Matter, is a very loose organisation, which “encompasses all who declare that black lives matter” with emphasis on local action as opposed to centralised control. To try to pin such a loose confederacy to a particular manifesto clearly makes nonsense, and trawling the net will give you no clear result

The guiding principals however remain as the overall aim. These have been formulated since 2014.

Exactly, Wwm. Misrepresentation of a grassroots movement by those that deliberately choose to believe otherwise.

BLM is not a formal organisation. It may have sections that have formalised, but overall it is made up of people who protest in a variety of ways (some small-scale, such as kneeling) to show solidarity to the statement that black peoples lives matter just as much as white.

The lady on my street that makes face masks, is a bit of a hippy, but has a large BLM hand made poster in her window. The new friend I've made on a local Facebook group, who challenges racists. THEY are BLM. Not the imaginary Marxists extreme right wingers dream up.

And if you're more offended by the use of the F word, than you are about systemic UK racism, your moral compass is broken.

The cis gender privilege stuff is nonsense whitewave, that's just another way of saying women shut up.

sorry galaxy what were you referring to? I'm not sure what it is, because I agree with your statement.

In fact it's from exactly the same place that is currently telling black people to shut up. Same old, same old.

The cis gender privilege stuff is nonsense whitewave, that's just another way of saying women shut up.

absolutely.

Oh Furret What I won’t stand is hectoring. These sort of demands are techniques used by certain types to deflect the argument..

You do of course realise how disingenuous you are being? Pots and kettles.

You said if you support the organisation you support the stated aims. I am just not sure it's that clear cut.

so, if you support BLM, it doesn't mean you support BLM.
For goodness sake, if you don't support the stated aims of an organisation, how can you support them.
It's like Alice in Wonderland

Furret it wasn’t the word ‘fuck’ but the aggressive post “who the fuck do you think you are” that I disliked.