Teachers more worthy than doctors?

gillybob, I think it was your tone that people might have had an issue with... comments are all 'relative'. From a personal point of view, I'd pay my GP's out of my own pocket if I could. They've kept me on my feet for years, always have time for me if I need it and my life would be a lot less active without them. Maybe you have no health issues, or not such a good GP. On the face if it, especially now, with all they (and all medical staff) have been faced with, I could find your comments quite offensive but as I said, all opinions are relative.

My daughter was reduced to tears on her day off, when she took her children to the park, and observed many people sitting in large groups, no social distancing, and enjoying picnics and drinking. This was during strict lockdown. The tears were evidence of the stress she was under at that time.

Well here we have the traditional divide between the left and the right. I'm on the left and don't mind admitting it so I will wade in and say first of all that some of the comments on here about the 'value' of what various people do for the country I find insidious, laying the foundations for division. And equally I find comments like - 'I know a teacher (just one teacher) who has been sitting on her backside for 18 weeks' - which are then used to make generalisations about all other teachers, to be born from ignorance and being out of touch with reality. The problem I think for many gransnetters is that they have been shut away in their ivory towers (and I include myself here) while other people have been keeping the country going - people in the public sector like doctors, teachers, and social workers, and also people in the private sector like milkmen, supermarket workers and bin men in many cases (as these services are often sub-contracted). As a retired academic with years of experience reading research about employment issues I feel qualified to comment about and value all workers. There are perks and disadvantages in both the public and private sectors, more security in the public sector, and a culture of bonuses in the private sector. Also let us not forget that it is precisely the rhetoric about the ineffectiveness of the public sector that caused 65,000 + deaths due to coronavirus - yes, the attacks on the public sector over the past decade brought about a dilution of social care and its abandonment to private care homes and agencies - we can see what happened there! Finally, I think that by the time people reach our age, they have some security in the form of property or savings and have learned how to manage and live a life comfortably. Those still working, and especially junior members of the medical, teaching and law enforcement professions are mostly living in rented accommodation with not a cat in hell's chance of reaching the relatively secure conditions that we gransnetters enjoy. And it's these workers who also pay our pensions by the way!

This thread has become so damn predictable. All roles have their value, and it's impossible to say that one profession/job is any better than another. Instead of resorting to bashing one group and appearing to know what their work entails, even though they've never done that job themselves, and tending to quote hearsay more often than not, perhaps they would be better considering what kind of world we would be living in if none of these jobs existed, and actually consider what value each job (not just public sector, by the way), provides to society as a whole.

So some of the teachers worked through the lockdown - so what? So did many others (I did), who actually grafted. Carers, for example, work very hard, very long shifts, and many get minimum wage.

Hear, hear Mapleleaf

janeainsworth

I’ve been reading Pale Rider, a book about the 1918 flu pandemic, recommended by another GN member.

One of the observations the author makes is that in times of communal stress and anxiety, even desperation, at the beginning of the crisis people band together, help each other and are generous and supportive.

Then as time passes, things change, the sense of community disappears and they behave unpleasantly to each other, casting blame etc.

This process seems to be happening in 2020 with Covid.

I really can’t understand the venom being directed at teachers receiving a well-deserved pay rise. What on earth is the matter with you all?

Interesting reflection on human nature janeA

Wow, just bloody wow! @gillybob

I can recommend the book Maw.
It was published in 2017. In the last chapter, the author discusses the certainty that we would be engulfed by another pandemic sooner or later and what actions governments should take.
If Boris & Matt Hancock had read the book I think they would have acted rather differently between December 2019, when Covid was first identified, and the present time.

Maddyone you might like this.
<warning> contains expletives
Dr Rant on FB
“ Dear Social Media. I see that there is a lot of bullshit going around suggesting that GPs have been closed during the pandemic and that we are getting a pay rise. This bullshit is in fact bullshit.

At our practice, I see that the average number of clinical contacts per week has gone up from 850 to 1,050 during the lockdown. We are doing between 10 and 20 physical assessments wearing PPE every day. We are doing a vast numbers of phone and video consults for all the cases who do not have a compelling need for a physical examination.

Given that our surgeries tend to have waiting rooms full of ill people, if we opened our doors as normal, we would very rapidly become hot-spots for spreading Covid-19 to our patients and staff. We are following the guidelines given to us by NHS England to keen everyone safe.

Secondly, GP Partners are paid from any profits the practices make from our NHS contracts. This means that we do not get a salary, and therefore will not be getting the heavily publicised pay rise.

So, the next time you see a post going around claiming that we have been sat on out arses doing nothing, kindly tell the poster to go and fuck the fuck off. Especially if they are a healthcare worker themselves. We are fed up to the back teeth with this misinformation, especially as we have all been working harder than ever.

PS: Anyone who responds with a 'my GP failed to deal with my granny's verruca' or similar will be fucking banned”

Then as time passes, things change, the sense of community disappears and they behave unpleasantly to each other, casting blame etc.
Things do change. And that was exactly what happened as a reaction to yesterday's pay rise announcement janeainsworth. It was divisive and got people's backs up. Things have changed very favourably for some, but not at all for many. You can't blame the latter for feeling some resentment.

No choice, I needed the money. My first salary as a student nurse was £17.00 pm for a 42 hour week including weekends and bank holidays. It did improve, I was quite senior before I jumped ship. I recognise I have been fortunate to always find work, but my goodness I worked hard for every penny I received.

PinkCakes

I don't agree with teachers getting a rise at all - the majority of them haven't been at work for months, and now they're off for the 6 weeks holiday (they get about 13 weeks a year, don't they?)

I thought they had generous holidays till I was informed(then checked up myself) they get paid for 180 days a year spread over the year.

Thank you janeainsworth for recognising the work GPs have been doing, and continue to do. I have seen more than a couple of posts over the last few months claiming that GPs had little to do, and I was fully aware of the stress my own daughter was under, and I’m afraid it made me cross. This was compounded by our inability to do anything to help her. Thankfully the extreme stress has lessened now, as our area is not any longer high risk, for now anyway. We are back to caring for the twins three days a week, as the school are not providing key worker care during the summer holidays. The little one still goes to his nursery.

I absolutely won’t enter into discussion re the ‘worth’ of teachers versus doctors or other medics. All are essential workers (along with others) and it is poor form in my opinion to even try to compare the ‘worth’ of one profession to another. In society we are all interdependent and therefore should value everyone’s contribution. But we should acknowledge the stress, hard work and commitment that the medics have gone through uniquely during this crisis.

Barbaraw

PinkCakes

I don't agree with teachers getting a rise at all - the majority of them haven't been at work for months, and now they're off for the 6 weeks holiday (they get about 13 weeks a year, don't they?)

I thought they had generous holidays till I was informed(then checked up myself) they get paid for 180 days a year spread over the year.

No, they don't. It's 195 days.

190 days of classroom teaching plus 30 hours of training.

It averages out at 32.5 hours a week plus time to prepare and mark (and whatever extra time is needed to fulfil the statutory role of a teacher).

I had no intention of revisiting this thread but wish to say to whoever it was that reported me.... you clearly did not read my apology this morning.

Never mind. I don't care .

Whether it's 180 or 195 days a week off, that's a lot, isn't it? Wow, far more than any other profession?

All I can add is, some teachers have clearly failed their pupils; those unable to use paragraphs in lengthy pieces of writing, and those unable to express strongly- felt emotions without resorting to abusive language.

It isn't 180 days OFF. The word off is wrong . It is 180 or 195 day when the children are not in school. There is the difference.
I am appalled at the sheer nastiness from some of the posters and their reaction when educators stand up for themselves. I do wonder what went wrong in these posters' school time that they should want to " get their own back ".

By the way if you are reading this thank a teacher.

I noticed your post had been deleted gillybob

How petty some people are.

You were perfectly entitled to let off steam after the dreadful day you had been through and I was so shocked to see that one post had gone.

Isn’t it interesting how those who seem to delight in reporting posts never have the courage to own up ?

I report obvious spam posts, but I think that one has to accept the rough with the smooth in heated debates. I bet there isn’t a single poster on GN who hasn’t, at some point, lost their rag and posted in anger. Few have the grace to apologise when they have cooled down, as gillybob did. We could all learn from her example.

Doctors nurses postman Tesco workers care workers!!! Teachers do not know they are born having worked in the nnhs 40 years often no lunch break teachers have not worked fully through lockdown my grandchildren have had little support appalling !

I must say, I could see how this particular thread was going to go, in the same way as one at the beginning of lockdown when schools closed and the teacher bashing by some began.
It really distressed me how angry and venomous some posters can come across, especially ones who have been shown so much sympathy and concern over how difficult this time has been for them ( by many with troubles of their own and family working in healthcare and education at the frontline to worry about). Knowing so many of the contributors to this site work or have family who work in the public sector they certainly know how to provoke.
By all means, have an opinion but do not generalise these valued professions because a few may be taking advantage of our current situation. My daughter has been working darned hard at school during this pandemic. She gave up her Easter to continue teaching key workers children, plus remotely teaching her own year two class and her children at home. She and others like her in health and social care are to be applauded.
As a retired teacher myself I know what a difficult job it is. I know many who have entered the profession after working in the private sector and the shock upon discovering it's not a job you leave behind in the classroom at 4 o'clock has soon made them reconsider and leave.
Yes teachers, doctors, nurses deserve their rise and I hope supermarket bosses will do likewise for their staff considering the price rises at the moment.
This pay rise will probably be the last one they will get for a long, long time. This pandemic is going to be with us far into the future. It's not going away and we are all going to need these people at the frontline. Let's give them some reward while we can.

Having no lunch break is no rarity in many professions, JustretiredHilary. Why are you so anti- teacher ?
I find it very distressing that so many posters are anti the teaching profession and that there is so much misinformation .
It's a job I wouldn't do now and I take my hat off to those who battle on . This is not saying that teachers are better or that the job is better. Perhaps more careful reading of what is posted would help.