Priti Patel threatens the French with the Navy

This was posted on another thread. About an asylum seeker's experience. It's an interesting read.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/02/hassan-akkad-for-someone-from-syria-the-creeping-authoritarianism-is-vivid-in-britain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

lemongrove

They are entering illegally growstuff and yes, they will then apply for asylum which takes time, but quite a lot will be flown back to France if it’s denied.They have to prove they are not simply economic migrants.
We pay France to stop this vegansrock ( you ask why the French should stop migrants) and no doubt will come to an agreement with the French by paying more.It’s better if we do it that way as then nobody will drown trying to cross.

They become legal the moment they enter British waters and apply for asylum, which is a legal status. They don't need to be granted it to become legal. I hate the term "illegals" - it's become part of the gutter press narrative.

Admittedly, some are irregular because they never apply for asylum. Even so, there still some idiots who claim "illegals only come here for our benefits". No, they don't. They can't claim them if they're not here legally and, anyway, benefits are more generous in other countries such as France and Germany.

This is all grandstanding. Patel can't do anything. France isn't going to go out of its way to stop them - there's no reason why it should.

Callistemon

^Why should the French stop them?^
Why would they not want to stay there?
Apparently it is much more wonderful than the UK.

re increased number of immigrants crossing the Channel.
Are they illegal immigrants, asylum seekers or people who have been granted refugee status?

They are legal if they apply for asylum.

Many come from Eritrea, where English is taught. Many already have family in the UK.

They also want to leave the camps of Calais. They live there in dreadful conditions and have their belongings regularly ruined by the French police - when they are taken to other areas of France where they can be helped etc they almost immediately start again to return to Calais.
Besides many speaking English lots of them are well qualified with professional qualifications. U.K. may well be in need of these people with so many young qualified Brits reported as leaving the U.K. for what they see as a better life elsewhere.
Many of the migrants do go to other EU countries - Germany and Sweden being two of them.

France actually has more refugees than the U.K., contrary to what many people believe, also Germany, Italy and Sweden. Unless Patel comes up with a better solution than send in the gunboats which will only pick them up and bring them into the U.K., racism and xenophobia will get worse.

We have to put a stop to them because if we don't there will be no end to it. They will continue to travel through France in order to get here. They are already causing trouble in the French ports (many of the boats have been stolen), so this is not in the interests of France.
As regards asylum, they are supposed to claim asylum in the first country they come to. If they are genuine refugees, they would be content simply to be in Europe.

It's supposed to be illegal to try and claim asylum anywhere other than the first safe county that 'refugees 'come to, so they should all be returned to the EU's eastern borders. Any country, which tourists are willing to travel to, is surely deemed a safe country,

Money spend on nice hotel accommodation is money which could be spent on elderly people, who can't afford to heat their homes in winter, or more nurses, council houses etc. Read up what Iceland were prepared to do with their boats during the cod wars. I don't see any ill feeling towards Iceland.

Porto Rica brings into port all those who are water bound, mainly from the Dominican Republic. It fingerprints them all and, any found to be criminals are thrown in jail, the rest are shipped back from whence they came. Once the criminals have served their sentence they are also deported.

Only in Britain, do illegal immigrants get put up in 4 star hotels at the taxpayers' expense and are very rarely deported. No wonder they all want to come here. I expect they are all texting home on their smart phones to tell everyone else how easy it is and what fools the British are!

It's not the France's responsible to stop them leaving, it's ours to stop them landing, and if they do get through then to deport them all very quickly to send the message back that is futile trying to get to the UK. I'm sure Priti wants do this, but even with a large government majority, it appears she is being prevented from doing so.

It is illegal under international maritime law for our navy not to rescue, but threaten those in peril in UK coastal waters.

The feeling seems to be that France is pretty awful for migrants, so much so that they desperately need to leave it to get to the UK.
There are far too many of them for the ‘they have relatives here’ excuse or that they speak English.They come from so many different countries for a start.
I think the main reason they come here is as mentioned, they think ( perhaps rightly) that life in the UK will be better all round for them, and for some, that they can vanish as we don’t have a culture here of demanding ID.
The raids on factories and restaurants prove that many here
Have no legal basis for doing so.
The British Navy would never threaten those in peril in any waters, let alone UK ones.

I have tremendous sympathy for folk on these boats but, as others have said, they have already crossed several safe countries before UK. I know it would be hard but we need to start picking them up then putting them on the next ferry back to France.

The argument that people should stop in the first 'safe' country they arrive in just won't wash. This is an international problem which Europe is currently trying to manage.
Priti Patel is grandstanding. She can't send in the Navy to do anything other than the humanitarian thing, which is to rescue these people.
Other European countries are already caring for more asylum seekers than the UK. Our island status makes it even more difficult to get here.
As others have said, many people making the treacherous journey from Syria or Africa have links with the UK. English may be a second language, they may have family here or be from a former colony.
Remember the ignorance and racism shown towards the Jewish people fleeing Nazi Germany, to the Windrush generation, to the Indians thrown out by Idi Amin. Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood Speech? It is being repeated towards the current wave of refugees and asylum seekers.
We can and should contribute to the international responsibility towards people in need.

Lemon posts -"The British Navy would never threaten those in peril in any waters, let alone UK ones."

But that is exactly what Priti Patel wants our Navy to do

varian

Lemon posts -"The British Navy would never threaten those in peril in any waters, let alone UK ones."

But that is exactly what Priti Patel wants our Navy to do

It may or may not be what Patel wants ( as Iam says, I think she is grandstanding) but it is certainly not something the Navy will agree to.

You only have to look at the majority of these migrants trying to get into our country illegally to answer the question of whether they are asylum seekers or economic migrants.

The vast majority of them are young males who, quite rightly believe we are a soft touch.

There is already a perfectly good asylum seeking procedure in place for those wishing to come here, and those who attempt to get in illegally by boat or the back of lorries should automatically be refused permission to apply and sent home.

They all seem to have smartphones so word would soon get back that it’s futile to attempt anything other than the approved route.

I am so disappointed that Prity Patel, despite the tough talk has failed to get a grip on this dreadful situation.

But there isn't a good asylum seeking procedure. That's exactly why people attempt to come to the UK on boats!

How can you tell from looking at people whether people are asylum seekers or economic migrants? In fact, I'm baffled because people can be both. The definitions don't preclude each other.

Newquay

I have tremendous sympathy for folk on these boats but, as others have said, they have already crossed several safe countries before UK. I know it would be hard but we need to start picking them up then putting them on the next ferry back to France.

The UK would be breaking international law if it attempted to do that once they have applied for asylum, which they are entitled to do as soon as they enter British waters.

I am so disappointed that Prity Patel, despite the tough talk has failed to get a grip on this dreadful situation.

Why is it so dreadful that the UK should accept as many migrants as other European countries? Are we special?

It's obviously impossible to know exactly how many people are in the UK illegally. By definition, they keep their heads down and are not accounted for.

However, the majority of people who are deported for not having a legal status did not come to the UK on a boat or on the back of a lorry. The majority are people who came on a temporary visa and have overstayed their visa. Unbelievably, Border Force does not keep records of when people on temporary visas leave the country, so they don't know if they're still here. Some are the children of immigrants (like the Windrush examples), whose status was never regularised.

"Why is it so dreadful that the UK should accept as many migrants as other European countries?"

Spain is more than twice the size of UK
France is more than twice the size of UK
Germany is 1 1/2 times the size of UK

We are a small island with a finite amount of space, we already have thousands of homeless people on our streets, many are having to resort to food banks to feed their families.

We send billions in aid to many countries to help the people there. If the aid money was properly supervised and used as it is intended instead of going into the pockets of corrupt officials, those people would not need to risk their lives to get to another country.

Interesting article from The Independant 2007. The article reports on how many people are in the uk.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/city-eye-facts-on-a-plate-our-population-is-at-least-77-million-5328454.html

Oldwoman70

"Why is it so dreadful that the UK should accept as many migrants as other European countries?"

Spain is more than twice the size of UK
France is more than twice the size of UK
Germany is 1 1/2 times the size of UK

We are a small island with a finite amount of space, we already have thousands of homeless people on our streets, many are having to resort to food banks to feed their families.

We send billions in aid to many countries to help the people there. If the aid money was properly supervised and used as it is intended instead of going into the pockets of corrupt officials, those people would not need to risk their lives to get to another country.

Long live Little England!

We are a small island with a finite amount of space...

It's a myth that we have no space. There is plenty of land in this country but it is owned by a number of wealthy people.

We often hear about us being a small island but it's surprising to learn that hardly any of the UK is built on.

Interesting article here showing exactly how much of the UK is built on.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901297

2: What proportion of the UK is classified as discontinuous urban fabric?
A: 5.3%

You are probably suspecting that these figures are missing something, but a variety of different land use data sources come up with broadly the same picture.

The UK National Ecosystem Assessment (NEA), for example, estimates that less than 1% of the country is "built on", about 2% of England. I wrote about their work five years ago.

Ordnance Survey data suggests that all the buildings in the UK - houses, shops, offices, factories, greenhouses - cover 1.4% of the total land surface. Looking at England alone, the figure still rises to only 2%.

So we obviously have a lot of space!

One of the reason JenniferE why its young males trying to get into any country is because at home they are the target in the fighting. They are forced to fight against their will, they are tortured and killed if they don't Many of those coming from West Africa are forced out of school and put into the rebel army. They suffer huge hardship crossing the Sahara Desert to get away and many don't make it. Once in Libya they are often held to ransom, held in prisons and tortured. Then its the boat crossing, landing in Greece or Italy thinking their troubles are over, but they are not. They are put into camps to be processed which can take years and these camps are dreadful and violent. All refugees want is peace, a peaceful life for themselves and their families, isnt that what we all want?

Suggest you read The New Odyssey by Patrick Kingsley instead of reading tripe like the Daily Mail which tells a much truer story. We are a disgrace on how we treat them and to my mind we need to have a government with the compassion. Most of them are professionals, Dr, Engineers etc. why can't we help them and make use of their talents. After all Priti Patel came from a refugee family.