A group has been created with the aim of removing the government

Having rejected PR in the past, it’s unlikely to be voted on again anytime soon. The OP writes of a group who wish to overthrow an elected government.We all know it won’t ever happen .....there are a lot of strange naive and also gullible people out there so he may acquire a small following.

We have never "rejected PR". We have never been given the opportunity to vote on PR.

"The present system has clearly broken down. The results produced are not fair to any party, nor to any section of the community. In many cases they do not secure majority representation, nor do they secure an intelligent representation of minorities. All they secure is fluke representation, freak representation, capricious representation."

Winston Churchill on First Past the Post

conservativeelectoralreform.org.uk/support-reform/first-past-the-post/

I bet it would all be fair if Labour or lib/dems had an 80 seat majority!! Just like the referendum which would have been perfectly fair and properly run had remain won!!!

Ok varian ...to be precise, in 2011 there was a UK referendum on changing from FPTP to AV which was rejected ( so PR had no chance) and there was a debate in 2016/17 ? In the Commons on PR.
There was no vote at that time, and probably never likely to be.

AV is not PR.

No AV isn’t PR but was the choice for the public at the time they voted, the Lib Dems were hoping it would be chosen, but we voted to keep FPTP instead.

That nonsense referendum was just one of the mistakes made by Nick Clegg. Many LibDems were against it. No-one actually wanted AV, but many, not just LibDems wanted PR.

Those who have been elected by FPTP know very well that it is not democratic, but if they think it gives an advantage to their party they don't care - because they are NOT democrats.

I have to say I am very disappointed with the low standard of debate by the Tory supporters on GN. It seems to amount to a playground chant of "We won ha ha ha""

Having said that I don't really think that this thread is the best place for us to debate. The OP started telling us about someone who wants to overthrow the government.

Now, in my opinion, that would be a good thing as this government must be the most corrupt and incompetent government we have ever had.

However, I am not about to sign up to his group. I am already an active member of the Liberal Democrats and support the Campaign for Electoral Reform

The problem we have on GN is the inability of Tory GNetters to defend this awful government, or to get beyond the playground chant of "we won ha ha ha".

I suggest that GNetters who are interested in a progressive political future join the LibDems, or another progressive party and continue to campaign for electoral reform.

We do know that electoral reform will not happen tomorrow, but if we do not support this undemocratic sham democracy, we must make it happen.

Which poster said ‘we won, haha’?
What about the low standard of debate from Lib Dem supporters .....who have only one refrain (played endlessly) along the lines of
It isn’t fair!
It’s undemocratic!
Brexit is horrible!
Sham this, sham that!

If this is the best you can do, I rest my case.

It isn’t....but it amused me to post it.?

varian you know as well as I do that there is only one way to replace the present government, and that’s at the ballot box in four years time.
Not that we would have a Lib Dem government then, but there’s the possibility of power sharing if the LP didn’t quite have the numbers and the Conservatives do badly.That’s the best you can hope for.

Granddad1943 How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?

If, for instance, a black person is told that the flat they wished to rent has already been taken, how is that person to establish that it has not? The only way is for a properly constructed and systematic under-cover investigation - as has been done and which has found that certain letting agents were, on the instructions of their clients, saying to black potential renters that a flat was no longer available.

Likewise, how could a candidate for a job who has sent in his/her cv know that his/her application, although superior to others, has been discarded because he/she had a non-European sounding surname?

Of course, there are laws to try and prevent discriminatory practices but discrimination is often hard to prove without proper analysis of procedures and outcomes, and under cover investigations being carried out.

So please don't trot out the idea that discrimination in this country is not a serious issue because we have a legal process through which everyone who has been the subject of discriminatory practices can receive justice.

You appear to be a great proponent of the trades union movement, which I agree is generally a force for good in society and seeks to protect people's employment rights. However, it seems you are less keen on accepting that there are some people who are, based on hard evidence, routinely discriminated against within the workplace and, as a committed trade unionist, I would have thought you would accept that and that it would be of some concern to you.

Eloethan, in regard to your post @00:36 yesterday, there are a number of legislative acts that deal with discrimination in our society.

First among them is the Equality Act 2010. That act legally protects people from discrimination in the workplace and in wider society. It encompassed previous anti-discrimination laws within a single Act, making the law easier to understand and strengthening protection in many situations. It sets out clearly the different ways in which it is unlawful to treat someone.

The Equality Act is overseen in its application by the Race & Equalities Commission, and in that anyone who feels they have reasonable grounds for a belief that they have been discriminated against on the bases of Gender, Race, Sexual orientation, religious belief or disability can apply to the above body for the matter to be investigated.

Other legislative acts also cover discrimination in all its forms. The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 (amended 2011) also covers discrimination in the workplace and in areas affected by the operations of any place of work. I have been involved personally in many investigations which have involved discrimination in employment where safety has also become involved.

The Employment Rights Act 1996 also covers acts of discrimination in the workplace along with much else.

The above legislative acts are often brought together. By example, should discrimination in employment prevent a person obtaining promotion in their job role, then investigators from the Race & Equalities Commission will at first investigate that under the Employment Rights Act and then under the Equality Act if it is felt that act of discrimination prevented a person from obtaining a mortgage or other loan etc

It is not unusual for investigators from the Race & Equalities Commission to work jointly with those from the Health & Safety Executive (or their appointed representatives) in matters involving discrimination both in and outside of the workplace.

Therefore Eloethan I hope you can see how comprehensive legislation covers all discrimination wherever it is found within the United Kingdom. The problem often is people subject to such acts of discrimination do not use the above legislation and the free of cost Bodies that oversee the implementation of the above acts.

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?

MaizieD

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: ^How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?^

Then MaizieD you apply to the Bodies as I laid out in my above post for them to seek out any evidence of dicrimination where such evedence exists.

I feel like its groundhog day again. Change for oppressed groups very rarely comes from legislation alone, it comes from a cultural shift. For example the progress that has been made in terms of gay rights has not only been because of legislation in fact that was only a small part of it. Peoples attitudes towards gay rights didnt change because gay people used the equality act to tackle individual acts of discrimination (although of course people will have used the legislation in this way) it was caused by a cultural shift which was caused by campaigning, protesting, visibility, etc etc. Thinking legislation alone tackles discrimination is very naive.

It's called a General Election in this country. We live in a democracy whether we like what the current government are doing or not!

MaizieD

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: ^How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?^

Maybe that was just the introduction and he'll get round to answering the question later.

Grandad1943

MaizieD

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: ^How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?^

Then MaizieD you apply to the Bodies as I laid out in my above post for them to seek out any evidence of dicrimination where such evedence exists.

And if the evidence can't be found that easily?

Have you ever used the Equality Act?

JonesKpj000

It's called a General Election in this country. We live in a democracy whether we like what the current government are doing or not!

There's more to a democracy than elections, like it or not.

Galaxy

I feel like its groundhog day again. Change for oppressed groups very rarely comes from legislation alone, it comes from a cultural shift. For example the progress that has been made in terms of gay rights has not only been because of legislation in fact that was only a small part of it. Peoples attitudes towards gay rights didnt change because gay people used the equality act to tackle individual acts of discrimination (although of course people will have used the legislation in this way) it was caused by a cultural shift which was caused by campaigning, protesting, visibility, etc etc. Thinking legislation alone tackles discrimination is very naive.

Exactly! Legislation is almost always a reaction to campaigning and protesting, etc.

Just

Oops just what ??