A group has been created with the aim of removing the government

No Furret1, I don't need or want your patronising explanations, in fact I don't want to talk to you at all, and from now on won't be.

varian

Grandad I have great appreciation for the working people of this country, especially those on the front line who have kept us going during this difficulty year, but these workers have been sadly let down by our incompetent government, as have the people in the USA, Brazil and other countries with right wing populist governments.

Varian, you state in your above post that you have "great appreciation for the working people of this country",

However, in your post in this thread on the 24/08/20 @17:46, you were describing those who organised through trade unions in an effort to protect themselves from being "let down" by government or unfairly treated by their employers as being rooted in the 1960s and totally out of date in today's society.

So varian, could you please inform me and others how those working people are supposed to protect themselves and their working conditions in today's society.

Should they individually go cap in hand to their employers and beg for a pay rise, training or the just maintenance of the conditions they hold already??? Do you varian along with other Liberal Democrats see that as the way forward for Britains essential workers that have served us all so well throughout the Covid-19 crisis.

I would remind all that in 2012 while the Tory/LibDem coalition was the government of Britain David Cameron announced that it was that government's policy to scrap all industrial Safety legislation in favour of company self-regulation. The Liberal Democrats remained in that coalition government while those plans were prepared and the first stage of the policy was implemented limiting compensation claims for safety breaches against employers.

In 2014 Cameron implemented the second stage of that policy with companies being allowed to self assess all building materials safety requirements. That change of legislation the Grenfell inquiry has already concluded was the main cause of the Grenfell Tower tragedy.

So much for the Liberal Democrats support of the average working people of Britain. It is that party and all who support it who are totally out of touch with the realities of Britain today.

Incompetent Government, the Liberal Democrats were at the very heart of one only a few years back.

A full reference to what Cameron stated in 2012 while in coalition with the Liberal Democrats can be found by following this link:-
www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jan/05/cameron-targets-health-and-safety-rules

There is no logical contradiction between having respect for working people in the UK (of whom millions aren't trade union members) and finding some trade union attitudes rooted in the 1960s. Therefore, the rest of your post is flawed and irrelevant. In fact, most of the post doesn't even address the issue.

In fact, going back to varian's post, you've completely ignored it and not addressed it any way.

growstuff

There is no logical contradiction between having respect for working people in the UK (of whom millions aren't trade union members) and finding some trade union attitudes rooted in the 1960s. Therefore, the rest of your post is flawed and irrelevant. In fact, most of the post doesn't even address the issue.

I believe my above post demonstrates very well that the Lib Dems have never supported the working people of Britain.

However, I can understand how those that supported the Liberal Democrats during those years of the coalition would wish to now play down what that party and they were part of.

We had a general election which resulted in a Conservative government. There was no credible opposition because of the unspeakable Labour leader. What makes anyone think that the pandemic would have been managed any better by another party? It’s been confusing and chaotic at times but the country as a whole was pitifully unprepared and that’s the responsibility of all previous governments who refused to spend time or money on something that might never happen. The government has looked after us a lot better than many in other countries and whilst hardship and recession were inevitable much has been to mitigate the effects. Some people will always say it’s never enough but that’s not realistic.

Furret If you are hoping for a Marxist government led by Keir Starmer then dream on. Many former Labour voters in this country have finally seen the light. You cannot give credit to a Prime Minister who has been so ill and continues to run the country in the middle of a Pandemic and with all the other problems to be faced. There has been talk on this forum about compassion and kindness but it is sadly lacking from some.

Jabberwok

No Furret1, I don't need or want your patronising explanations, in fact I don't want to talk to you at all, and from now on won't be.

Bat home.

Janpt

Furret If you are hoping for a Marxist government led by Keir Starmer then dream on. Many former Labour voters in this country have finally seen the light. You cannot give credit to a Prime Minister who has been so ill and continues to run the country in the middle of a Pandemic and with all the other problems to be faced. There has been talk on this forum about compassion and kindness but it is sadly lacking from some.

Starmer.........A Marxist.???

Many in the Labour movement would state that he is attempting to take the Parliamentary Labour Party so far to the right it will be in a position to form a coalition with the Tory Party should a coalition be necessary following the next General Election.......whenever that may be.

Thinking about it, the Starmer led part of any coalition would probably be the far right-wing. ?

I don't think that you know what 'Marxist' actually means, Janpt

emoji to Lucca!

In the meantime, how is the subject of the OP getting along?
Has Colin reached £400 yet?

If he doesn't manage to remove the government, will people be demanding their money back?
Will Colin stage a coup and install himself at No. 10?

What's the latest?

MaisieD If it basically means trying to make everyone equal then I do. People cannot be made equal. There are those who take pride in their own achievements and those who sit back and expect the government to provide for themselves and in many cases the children they cannot afford to keep.

Janpt

MaisieD If it basically means trying to make everyone equal then I do. People cannot be made equal. There are those who take pride in their own achievements and those who sit back and expect the government to provide for themselves and in many cases the children they cannot afford to keep.

Well, it doesn't mean that at all, Janpt.

Grandad you really should stop misquoting other posters, as you did when you wrote this -

"in your post in this thread on the 24/08/20 @17:46, you were describing those who organised through trade unions in an effort to protect themselves from being "let down" by government or unfairly treated by their employers as being rooted in the 1960s and totally out of date in today's society."

What I actually wrote was this-

"I respect your strong convictions about the Labour movement, in particular the Trade Unions etc, but could you tell us if you have ever changed your mind about anything in the last fifty years?"

This was most certainly not a statement about workers or trade unionists in general but about you.

I do not for a minute think that all trade unionists are "rooted in the 1960s and totally our of date in today's society."and would never suggest that. I know many trade unionists in real life and none are like that. You seem to be the sole exception.

Jabberwok. Thanks but can’t make out what emoji signifies.?

Callistemon

In the meantime, how is the subject of the OP getting along?
Has Colin reached £400 yet?

If he doesn't manage to remove the government, will people be demanding their money back?
Will Colin stage a coup and install himself at No. 10?

What's the latest?

I was wondering that!

This thread does seem to have meandered more than most.

Janpt

MaisieD If it basically means trying to make everyone equal then I do. People cannot be made equal. There are those who take pride in their own achievements and those who sit back and expect the government to provide for themselves and in many cases the children they cannot afford to keep.

Errmm ... no! I think maybe you should do some research about what Marx actually wrote and what Marxism in all its reinterpretations means today. I doubt if there are more than a few thousand genuine "Marxists" in the UK today.

Lucca,I think you can if you enlarge it! Its quite easy !

varian in regard to your post @19:00 today, I have no intention of "splitting hairs" with you over words in a post for actions by the Liberal Democratic Party who you support speak far louder than any words.

In regard to that parties support for working people do you deny that from 2010 until 2015 the coalition government of the Tory Party and the LibDems completely deserted all support for working people by way of joining the Tory party in wishing to abolish all workplace safety legislation.

That legislation had at that time reduced accidents and health problems incurred by employees in Britains workplaces by over eighty-five percent since it's introduction in 1974. However, the legislation that brought the above figure about was considered by that Tory and LibDem government as "red tape" and should be destroyed.

Thankfully that coalition government never got to abolish the legislation as the limited changes to health & safety they did bring about the Grenfell Tower inquiry has already concluded was at the very base of that tragedy and all now is quietly not mentioned by the Tories, the Liberal Democrats, their party members and supporters.

So much for Liberal Democrat claims of longstanding support of working people. A Totally disgusting Party in its recent history which should never be forgotten.

Varian I hope you know I hold you personally responsible for the pandemic and rising unemployment in America. Disgusting

Perhaps I should also plead guilty to getting Kier Starmer elected to lead the Labour Party.

Galaxy

Varian I hope you know I hold you personally responsible for the pandemic and rising unemployment in America. Disgusting

And the Australian bushfires!

Galaxy

Varian I hope you know I hold you personally responsible for the pandemic and rising unemployment in America. Disgusting

Galaxy I have more respect for Conservative Party members and supporters than I do for Liberal Democrat Party members and supporters.

As a left-wing member of the Labour movement, the Tories have always been absolutely clear in their ambitions to destroy organised labour and have in that brought forward fifteen parliamentary bills over a number of years in there efforts to accomplish that ambition.

However, with the Liberal Democrats and their party members and supporters they try to tell Labour members that they stand in support of working people. However, their recent history comprehensively demonstrates that they have no such regard for working people and in any quest for power will even be prepared to destroy the little legislation there is in existence to protect those persons.

Such are the Lib Dems and their supporters. I would have expected that as someone who advises they are a Labour Party supporter you would have joined so many in the Labour movement and thought similar Galaxy???