No more than 6 people indoors or out

I think franbernthat the riding rate of infection shows that people didn't understand - or pretended they didn't understand and looked for loopholes so they could do what they wanted.

It's not that hard to understand really.

Avoid close contact with other people

But people seems to like a rule
Then they can find a way to break it?

Typos ?

Exactly Janpt, When I read on here of people having holidays, going out to eat, socialising, family meet ups etc., it is obvious that there are those unaware (or don't care) of how it is in some parts of the country with the number of cases rising.

Thats right Janet bring Labour and JC into it, you can't help yourself can you. I am a labour voter and I actually agree with the 6 rule and would even bring in stricter rules if I had my way. The most important thing at the moment is not whether you can see your gc or have Christmas together but to stop or bring down Covid, the restrictions are a small price to pay to stop the spread. We all moaned me included when Boris didn't bring in lockdown quick enough and now people are moaning because he has. Never thought I would stick up for Boris.

Franbern

Watching House of Lords debate today, the Government spokeman, Lord Bethell, confirmed, repeatedly that the rule of six for both indoor and outdoor was not based on anything scientific - but on 'communication'.
It seems that in the governments opinion we very stupid masses cannot understand more complicated rules, so they have put in something simple for us - regardless as to how much good it will do and how many problems it will cause.

I think the government's opinion is probably valid Franbern. We arrived back from abroad at the beginning of August and the overwhelming impression was that nobody had a clue what the rules were! Everyone we asked seemed to be interpreting them differently.
This 'rule of 6' is a blunt tool, but hopefully nobody can say it is difficult to understand.

Trouble is, when the government disregards laws they can’t act surprised when others don’t.

Also, when people realise that there is no scientific evidence for this rule, they will not go along with it. It is doomed to failure but do wonder how long before it is amended, like all other rules.

I need to retread the Gov website as I am still a little confused - not difficult to do for me!

I understand the maximum of 6 people meeting and in fact this now benefits me as a single person because I can now meet with 5 other single friends indoors instead of shivering in the garden during the winter! Or at least I thought I could but I'm not sure if the only two households meeting together indoors rules also still applies, in which case, nothing has changed for me. Does it still apply?

Christmas will be different in our family as my sister ( family of 4 with no young children) usually hosts the rest of the family, anything up to 12 of us from seven different households, including my sister from the US. So that probably won't happen but so what, we can live with it for one year! I don't really want to spent the day alone but I'm sure that won't happen even if it's only me and my daughter having lunch together then visiting my sister on a rota basis.

I am getting fed up with all the negativity in the media about the changes. At least the new changes are easier than in Belgium who have recently been successful in turning around their increase in cases. They allowed 5 people to meet socially but those five people were fixed, not allowed to socialise with anyone else. I guess some very difficult decisions had to be made within families.

Barmeyoldbat

Thats right Janet bring Labour and JC into it, you can't help yourself can you. I am a labour voter and I actually agree with the 6 rule and would even bring in stricter rules if I had my way. The most important thing at the moment is not whether you can see your gc or have Christmas together but to stop or bring down Covid, the restrictions are a small price to pay to stop the spread. We all moaned me included when Boris didn't bring in lockdown quick enough and now people are moaning because he has. Never thought I would stick up for Boris.

I assume you are referring to me. I'm certainly not moaning about the restrictions. It doesn't affect me anyway as all my family are abroad so Christmas will be the usual non event for us. It's good to hear a Labour voter sticking up for Boris and hopefully recognizing the enormous task he has in front of him instead of the usual blinkered view from most Labour voters.

teacheranne if you are in ENGLAND then the previous "2 household only" rule does not apply. Therefore if you are single you can have 5 people from different households into your home. Personally I think that's ludicrous and Wales /Scotland have the balance right. From what I've been reading/seeing, people seemed to have forgotten the 2 household rule anyway. I also check on the Gov website regularly and find it easy to understand even if I dont always agree.

I am still bewildered (perhaps I am very stupid), as exactly what lockdowns and restrictions actually do in the long term.
Yes, obviously, it delays the passing on of this virus to other people.
Does it mean that whilst we are all doing that, the virus quietly gives up and goes away?
If not, if it is still there, then any and every time we start to go out again, then there will be more people getting infected.
I would repeat that I have more fears about the dreadful lives and deaths being caused through the economic disaster that is hitting our country than the actual virus.
Most virolologists seem to think that this sort of virus has a life of about 2- 3 years. The economic traumas are going to be with us for at least a decade, probably longer.

Gwyneth we are all moaning and whinging because, while accepting the government has a very hard job to do, the impression one gets of them is a lot of headless chickens running around responding to every minor thing with a knee jerk reaction and then back-tracking and changing things.

To see each part of the devolved UK all making sure that their policy is a little bit different to everybody elses is madness. Why can they not agree to coordinate their discussions and have a UK wide policy that will reduce the confusion.

Better still would be for the government to sit down and think for a few moments and then produce a flow chart, that we can all follow that will show how progress will be made and when and where steps forward and back will be taken and in what context. Business planners are doing this continually, some people do this for a living, anything to do with the future is uncertain, but contingent plans are possible.

As to whether the other party could do any better, well they certainly could not do any worse.

That all sounds very sensible MOnica. It's not just business planners - there are planners in just about any organisation. I was wondering recently whether anybody in the current cabinet has ever had any real experience of managing and planning anything.

Do you honestly think the late March/April lockdown had no effect Franbern? How do you account for the drop in cases and deaths? Or doesn't it matter to you how many people die?

The reason we now have cases doubling approximately every 7/8 days is because people have become complacent about social distancing. There are people not quarantining when they come back from holiday, people who think it's OK if they break the rules (nobody will know) and, anyway, they're special. There are now over 600 schools with infections, which was just so predictable.

I live in a wealthy, leafy part of the country, where housing density is low and there are no big warehouses or processing plants, but we've seen a massive rise in transmission over the last couple of weeks. From what I've seen from my couple of drives, people are gathering outside pubs and cafes without wearing masks. Most of them are middle-aged or elderly - selfish people, who don't think the rules apply to them.

The complacency and sense of entitlement/exceptionalism shown by some people makes me very cross.

Franbern coronavirus would have harmed the economy either way.

A large percentage of the population Ill and suffering, even in young people, possibly months of recovery would do just as much damage with more suffering and death on top.

I’ve just done a quick google search and found The Guardian says ‘dozens’ of schools have had Coronavirus outbreaks since schools reopened. The Daily Mirror says ‘sixty two’ schools, across the UK have suffered outbreaks.

However, schools must remain open. We cannot expect our children to be deprived of their education to keep us older citizens safe. Children have suffered more than any other group during this pandemic and we cannot allow the needs of older people to over ride the needs of the youngest and most vulnerable members of society. During lockdown the social and emotional needs of children were ignored and it would be reprehensible to allow this to continue. Older people must take responsibility for their own protection, and indeed most do just that. Follow the guidelines, wear a mask, use sanitiser, restrict the number of people seen, stay at home wherever possible. And wait for a vaccine.

It is good to see that a nineteen-year-old has been fined ten thousand pounds for having fifty people to a house party.

At last, the police authorities are taking strong action with those that just flout the emergency regulations

Let us hope we witness far more similar action in the coming days and weeks, then perhaps the infection rate will begin to fall once more and a return to something nearer to normal life will become possible.

And what was the fine imposed upon Johnson, when he boasted about the meeting in the House of Commons of Tory MP's, fifty in a room suitable (in non corona times) for 30 and he happily to reported they were packed in there to listen to him?

Oh. that is right......no fine.....rules nor laws apply to the Elite!!!

Mmmn. Interesting Franbern

Gwyneth

I am really fed up with all the moaning and whinging. Whatever, the government do is wrong. I agree that they haven’t always got it right but would any other political party have done any better? We shall never know. It’s very easy to criticise from the sidelines. So a birthday party or whatever has to be cancelled or postponed it’s not really the end of the world is it? There are people in third world countries who are really suffering. We have become a country of moaners who whinge about everything. Sorry rant over!!!

I too am really fed up with all the moaning about measures the government is trying to take to help get the country back to work and keep people safe!

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Nobody likes it but we all have to get on with it.

And I'm even more fed up our neighbours who are having a last mega family gathering before the restrictions tomorrow...

Fully expect to see the infection rate rise exponentially over the next 2 weeks when all these get togethers reap expected rewards.
SIL works in a Bham Hosp and they are preparing

Franbern

And what was the fine imposed upon Johnson, when he boasted about the meeting in the House of Commons of Tory MP's, fifty in a room suitable (in non corona times) for 30 and he happily to reported they were packed in there to listen to him?

Oh. that is right......no fine.....rules nor laws apply to the Elite!!!

Do we always have to harp on about the past. Move forward!

I do think that people who say that they are confused by the rules, and then use that as an excuse to break them, are being a bit disingenuous.

One news channel this week went out of their way to tell everyone how confusing the quarantine rules were, which is dangerous IMHO. They should be helping explain things not making it worse. Whether we agree with the rules or not, we're stuck with them and have to get on with it

Oh, and a comment about the scientific vs. communications debate. Its not that 6 people are "safe" and 7 aren't. But you have to draw a line somewhere and give people as simple a rule as possible, seeing as many still can't seem to grasp that going to the pub doesn't mean that you can mix in huge groups.

Algeria’s,
I completely agree with you.

Six people is dangerous if they are not social distancing. Better a party of 10 in a pub or restaurant socially distanced than six people from different households in a home all cuddled up on a sofa watching tv.