Today's Commons debate

Grandad1943

Oh, there are some very poor losers around this morning.

Starmer is due to address the TUC conference this morning, is anyone aware of whether he will be doing that online or if that speech is now completely cancelled being he is self-isolating???

I know what he's doing, but surely, Grandad, with your in depth and bang up to date knowledge of the Labour party, you should have known his plans long before any of us!

This 'Starmer worship' thing is getting really, really boring.

GrannyGravy13

The sainted Barnier is on video saying that the price the U.K. will have to pay is N.I.

Do any of you think that is acceptable? I do not.

I believe that the people of Northern Ireland should now be offered in a referendum the opertunity to decide if they wish to remain as part of the United Kingdom or become part of an entirely United Ireland.

I further believe that such a referendum would poll in favour of a United Ireland.

And that is the way it should have always been.

I honestly don’t know what you mean Grandad1943

Oh, there are some very poor losers around this morning

Who are these poor losers? It makes no sense. Please explain.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202009/medium-911717-4688e337-50d3-4085-97c3-53f26b7476d9.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202009/medium-887496-915d0d40-d64f-460a-9a5f-b555ca7702b2.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202009/medium-667708-8fdf4ed6-c9c0-4f15-b5d9-ae34fe03252d.png

This is David Frosts twitter statement

GrannyGravy13

This is David Frosts twitter statement

Yes I read it and of course Frost has no where explained that the U.K. specifically changed the law in May.

I was also interested to read that Frost is refusing to come before any select committee to defend or explain his stance.

If he is so sure if his position, he would be more than pleased to explain it. But he is willing to break international law without explaining it to his peers.

All that Britain has to do with regard food is to retain our existing standards or above. But it is refusing to do so.

According to the Independent 15 EU Member States have broken EU rules Germany the biggest rule breaker .

The EU is not the perfect and honourable organisation some people would like us to believe.

GrannyGravy13

According to the Independent 15 EU Member States have broken EU rules Germany the biggest rule breaker .

The EU is not the perfect and honourable organisation some people would like us to believe.

Breaking EU rules is an entirely different ball game. They are members of a club and the club will deal with them as they see fit, if at all.

We are breaking international law. A law that has been registered in the UN. The whole world is looking on.

You know that from all the comments from throughout the world.

Today we have become a state that cannot be trusted to keep a contract. It is to be written into U.K. law.

According to the Independent 15 EU Member States have broken EU rules.

How many have broken international laws?

Grandad is quite right. There is a video showing Barnier saying that NI is the price we will pay for having the temerity to leave the EU. NI was to be used as a weapon to force us to agree to their pre conditions, the video makes this quite clear. Level playing field? Spirit of friendship and co-operation?!! Don't think so! Threatening to effectively starve part of a country as part of a negotiation weapon is nothing short of disgraceful! Berlin blockade comes to mind! Mind you, how would you police it?!! As for integrity? (How pompous is that!!).this country is perceived by the rest of the world as a soft touch, weak and pathetic! I also agree with Grandad that NI should be offered a referendum on its future. To rejoin the South would make sense as it like all divided countries should never have been partitioned in the first place.

GrannyGravy13

The sainted Barnier is on video saying that the price the U.K. will have to pay is N.I.

Do any of you think that is acceptable? I do not.

Link please?

Alegrias it has been all over the internet since 2018, try UTube

Stephen Barrett has written a piece in The Spectator (available on line at the moment) regarding Germany breaking international law, cannot see any EU sanctions for Germany?

Typo *Steven (Commercial Chancery Barister)

Alegrias

GrannyGravy13

The sainted Barnier is on video saying that the price the U.K. will have to pay is N.I.

Do any of you think that is acceptable? I do not.

Link please?

I watched the link - sorry I didn't save it and can't find it now. Barnier was indeed discussing the situation with Northern Ireland, but he wasn't threatening. He was describing the situation as it was/is, which is something anybody with any sense could see for themselves. I guess the video clip is going to become part of the internet fake news library.

People have been raising the issue of Northern Ireland, as Barnier was doing, since the referendum. It was always going to be a problem and the Withdrawal Agreement, agreed by the UK and EU, was a compromise.

People who voted to leave and people like Johnson have just shrugged their shoulders and given false reassurances. Brexiters don't care. Remainers couldn't do anything. It's nothing to do with Barnier.

Jaberwok Your reference to the Berlin Blockade is ludicrous, as is your implication that the EU wanted to blockade Northern Ireland. Do you really have no recollection of the Irish Troubles and the Good Friday Agreement and what it meant for the Irish border?

Thanks GrannyGravy13. I've just spent half an hour trawling the internet for it but can't find it. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the clip, but right now I'm inclined to be siding with growstuff.

If you've ever been caught for speeding, have you tried explaining that other people were going faster than you? I don't think the police would accept it as an excuse.

The UK has broken international law. It's childish and irrelevant to claim other people have too. It really does sound like the kind of thing a two year old would say.

Alegrias

Thanks GrannyGravy13. I've just spent half an hour trawling the internet for it but can't find it. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the clip, but right now I'm inclined to be siding with growstuff.

I saw it on a Twitter feed. It was very poor quality - probably filmed on a phone. I've had a look for it, but can't find it know. I listened a few times. Barnier was showing that he understood the situation in Ireland and he speculated about what the UK woud do, but he wasn't threatening.

People have been going on about Ireland since the day after the referendum in the same way Barnier was. It was always going to be an intractable problem. A choice had to be made and the choice the Westminster government has made is to open up all the old border problems.

Former Daily Telegraph journalist and staunch Brexiter, Peter Oborne, made this video in 2019:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLyRufzQCw8

The Barnier clip - is it this: www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1335006/Brexit-News-Michel-Barnier-BBC-audio-Boris-Johnson-Ireland-latest-news

Actually I had found it before but I didn't think it was the clip everyone is talking about.

Its a 2 minute clip from a 2-hour documentary, made by the BBC, and Barnier is saying the exact opposite of what people are pretending he said. He is recommending leaving NI out of the negotiations for the time being, so that they can move ahead. And they then go on to discuss how this would go down with the other member states because they want to get everything settled. Maybe people should watch the whole program?

Interesting as well that a few moments before, they were talking about the fact that Raab went into negotiations and tried to change things that had already been agreed. And May reneged on agreements about the backstop. Sounds familiar.

growstuff

If you've ever been caught for speeding, have you tried explaining that other people were going faster than you? I don't think the police would accept it as an excuse.

The UK has broken international law. It's childish and irrelevant to claim other people have too. It really does sound like the kind of thing a two year old would say.

I keep thinking Michelle Obama here. You know, "When they go low, we go high..."

And our very old and proud boast: 'An Englishman's word is his bond'

(We haven't quite broken international law yet, though, growstuff. We just appear to have every intention of doing so and enshrining it in domestic law. Still, now that we've shouted it from the rooftops everyone will know to steer clear, won't they?)

Yes Alegrias that is the clip which is doing the rounds. You are absolutely correct. It's been cut to make Barnier appear to say the opposite of what's being claimed.

Given that Johnson based his argument yesterday on Barnier's wanting to threaten Northern Ireland, it's difficult to believe that the Conservatives weren't involved in making the latest clip go viral, as part of the propaganda campaign.

Didn't somebody do the same with a video of Starmer? The clip which went viral made it seem that he said something very different from what he actually said in the full video.

Thanks Growstuff. You're right about Starmer, a pause was edited into his original interview to make it look like he didn't know how to answer a question. Its all a bit sinister isn't it?

Alegrias

Thanks Growstuff. You're right about Starmer, a pause was edited into his original interview to make it look like he didn't know how to answer a question. Its all a bit sinister isn't it?

It's a continuation of the Leave Campaign tactics, isn't it? IT is Cummings' speciality interest.

All those dark adverts worked a treat in 2016. But altering footage is safer as it can't be referred to, or challenged by, the Advertising Standards Agency.

Does the Left play as dirty?

Do any indignant right wingers have evidence of footage, or stills, doctored by the left?