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Today's Commons debate

(238 Posts)
mcem Mon 14-Sept-20 18:18:23

Have you ever seen such an example of hopeless squirming embarrassment as Boris Johnson's pathetic performance?
Well done, Ed Miliband for showing BJ as a useless apology for a PM!

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 20:11:05

GrannyGravy13

I was not berating others MaizieD

You're making things up, though...

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Sept-20 20:23:40

MaizieD please clarify what I have made up?

suziewoozie Wed 16-Sept-20 20:34:31

Yes Jaber when it comes to facts, I have a very high and justified opinion of myself. Opinions are one thing but lazily posting unchecked ‘information’ is quits something else. Bring careful with information is not about intelligence however but about respecting truth. However, given that it’s mostly Johnson supporters tha are more likely to post wrong information they are of course, emulating their hero’s default behaviour.

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 20:38:07

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD please clarify what I have made up?

Posting that Ug had a right to post on here. As if we'd told her that she hadn't.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Sept-20 20:42:57

MaizieD I was pointing out that anyone has a right to post on the political threads whatever their political allegiance.

biba70 Wed 16-Sept-20 20:45:52

which no-one has ever denied sad ? have they ?

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 23:40:53

For a bit of light relief I've been looking at the latest Westminstenders thread on Mumsnet. Someone has posted a google translation of a long article from a 'conservative' Spanish newspaper about the current UK threat to renege on the Withdrawal Agreement. It's interesting as we rarely get the perspective of EU member states on here. Mumsnetters are more far ranging.

It's very long but I think that many of the Brexit critics will find it interesting.

It starts from their reaction to the aftermath of the Referendum. This is some of it. It makes the point that the UK got rid of most of its EU experts who could have given sound advice and help during negotiations.

I read today an article on "El Confidential" a conservative Spanish newspaper which explains the feeling about Britain and Brexit these days. Indifference.

From wrong beliefs to miscalculations: Brexit enters the impasse
The UK has misjudged its cards and has embarked on a move that could end in a no-deal Brexit. Far from getting attention, indifference has deepened

What surprised the most about Brexit in its first years of negotiation was the lack of preparation of the British team . No one had understood the Union better than the United Kingdom. They had the best diplomats, the best technical experts, and therefore the best cards within the community bloc. London would be was going to be the loser in negotiating with the Twenty-Seven, but it could make things difficult: they were still the best negotiators in Europe .

The amateurism and lack of preparation surprised many. At each step taken, London measured poorly, made mistakes, had unrealistic perspectives or simply did not understand the consequences of what was being negotiated. It is true that Brexit is the result of a revolt that precisely sought to oust experts , true diplomats or politicians who were not manifestly committed to the Eurosceptic crusade.

When we thought that Brexit had already given its all, the new season returns more powerful than ever. Olly Robbins, a henchman who was put at the forefront of negotiations by former Prime Minister Theresa May as the UK walked off the cliff, managed to earn the respect of the Union, but at home he had to deal with the 'Brexiter' coven in that he was one of the greatest traitors to the country. This is how the United Kingdom lost what would have been one of the key players in a negotiation that is probably much better managed: Sir Ivan Rogers, the ambassador to the European Union between 2013 and 2017 and one of the people who best understood the negotiations. Accused by conservative party radicals to be an EU sympathizer above his commitment to the government, Rogers resigned .

That is why, and in the midst of the crusade of Boris Johnson's new Tory party center of power, led by his eccentric adviser Dominic Cummings, against Whitehall's line of good technical experts and diplomats, it should not be completely surprising what has happened in recent years. days.

There's much more, of course...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/4021700-Westminstenders-Pah-International-Law-Who-needs-it?pg=23 scroll down about half way.

There's also a link to the Spanish original if anyone wants to read it.

Some of the ensuing posts are interesting, too.. There's an account on p24 of exchanges involving Lord Keen (before he resigned) in the House of Lords. Reading them I suspect that he resigned from acute embarrassment at having to defend the indefensible in the Lords; he wanted no more of it.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:15:30

Interesting post.

Indifference is indeed the order of the day.

The EU doesn’t need us and is rapidly coming to the conclusion that it doesn’t want us either.

This winter is going to prove very interesting.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:29:30

I do wonder about Johnson’s health.

Boris Johnson now saying he doesn't remember making a 10m Moon Shot target that he made in public

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:31:47

He hasn’t remotely changed has he?

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:38:33

Letter sent to Johnson warning him that the USA will not tolerate the breaking of the GFA

Dinahmo Thu 17-Sept-20 12:34:37

GG13 Funny, I thought that you were berating others (ie scold or criticize)

Dinahmo Thu 17-Sept-20 13:13:24

Maizie Thank you for that post. I'm not sure that even on GN most people are aware how we are viewed by other countries, especially those in the EU.

varian Thu 17-Sept-20 15:26:41

A "Downing Street source" has apparently said that Johnson will go in the New Year after he's "got brexit done".

It looks like this latest outrage is a deliberately provocative attempt to get the EU to walk away, making it easier to blame them for the disaster of no-deal.

MaizieD Thu 17-Sept-20 16:16:27

I don't think that the EU has any intention of walking away. They're not daft. They know that Johnson needs them to do that to justify 'no deal' and to claim a victory over it.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 16:24:18

MaizieD

I don't think that the EU has any intention of walking away. They're not daft. They know that Johnson needs them to do that to justify 'no deal' and to claim a victory over it.

They’ve nothing to lose. They have made sure that they are secure economically, and there is nothing that they buy from us that can’t be sourced from either within the EU or from other Countries with which they have negotiated a deal.

netflixfan Thu 17-Sept-20 16:24:53

Scuze me QuizQueen! You can be a leftie and not like the E U!

Alegrias Thu 17-Sept-20 16:26:38

Dinahmo

Maizie Thank you for that post. I'm not sure that even on GN most people are aware how we are viewed by other countries, especially those in the EU.

Yes, thank you MaizieD
Dinahmo I think its even worse than that, I think many people don't care how other countries see us.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 17:04:13

What bastards they are

Millionaire Jacob Rees-Mogg, back after saying that only idiots died in Grenfell, now says people need to stop "carping" on about potentially suffering from a deadly disease or not having the wages their family needs, because they can't get a test to clear them for work.
Femi.

Grandad1943 Thu 17-Sept-20 17:26:11

Whitewavemark2

What bastards they are

Millionaire Jacob Rees-Mogg, back after saying that only idiots died in Grenfell, now says people need to stop "carping" on about potentially suffering from a deadly disease or not having the wages their family needs, because they can't get a test to clear them for work.
Femi.

Do you have a link to the above JRM statement please Whitewavemark2.

Many thanks.

Jaberwok Thu 17-Sept-20 17:30:23

Perhaps if people hadn't flagrantly broken the Covid rules back along during the summer perhaps we wouldn't be in this position now! I think we all saw the beaches, raves, demos etc! It was obvious what would happen!

lemongrove Thu 17-Sept-20 17:38:36

netflixfan

Scuze me QuizQueen! You can be a leftie and not like the E U!

Absolutely netflix? and as the ‘red wall’ showed in the last GE, so very many Labour voters ( in the past) voted for Johnson this time round, for that very reason.

suziewoozie Thu 17-Sept-20 17:45:40

Femi’s tweet is hybrrbolic rubbish. JRM was referring to people carping in about the testing problems. He was obnoxious, condescending, patronising and misleading but he didn’t say what Femi said he did.

suziewoozie Thu 17-Sept-20 17:48:33

Or even hyperbolic

GrannyGravy13 Thu 17-Sept-20 17:51:06

The relevant clip is available on Sky News twitter feed.