Boris' 'oven ready' deal becomes 'No Deal'

I hope you're right Maizie

MaizieD

I'm suddenly really suspicious about all this. It's posturing really. I think we're all meant to feel really bad about the prospect of no deal and then our plucky little negotiators will pull something out of the bag at the last moment. It'll be a bloody awful deal but it'll be sold as world beating, of course.

It won't stop January and beyond being utter chaos, though, because no-one is prepared because no-one knew what to prepare for.

Yes I think that scenario is possible. We know for sure that the deal if it is agreed will be very “thin” and non-comprehensive. It can’t be anything else.

Do those who voted leave now believe that a weak deal is better than no deal? Would any gransnetters who initially voted to leave now change their vote in view of how the situation has unfurled? And are there any remainers on here who would now vote to leave?

I haven't said much on GN about my own view because the discussions so often become polarised and then get personal, which limits real debate about the issues (I do know that the political is personal and vice versa), but my own view is that the cost of Brexit has been too high. It has exposed (not necessarily created) divisions within the country, it has led our government to act illegally and therefore lose credibility on the world stage - and the general consensus is that the financial cost and disruption are going to be crippling for at least a generation. I would have been more hopeful for a better outcome if we had anyone other than the Johnson/Cummings duo at the helm, and the irony of an un-elected bureaucrat calling the shots isn't lost on me, but the ineptitude they have shown is breathtaking.

I voted to remain and from conversations I have had with younger people I do believe that if the European Union will have us back we will, at some time in the future, rejoin. Unless of course the concerns that leavers dubbed 'Project Fear' come to nothing and the United Kingdom flourishes once more as an isolated island.

Does anyone really believe that the United Kingdom will prosper out of the EU or even survive?

varian

Does anyone really believe that the United Kingdom will prosper out of the EU or even survive?

Johnson said we would this afternoon.

The problem is that he is a notorious liar.

I heard his hollow boast and had a sinking feeling. If only we could rewind back five years.

They haven’t told Barnier ‘not to bother coming’ but suggested it would be a waste of time to come unless there is a different mindset by the EU and compromise from their side is in the air.Which it likely will be.It’s all bluff and double bluff.

GrannyActivist I have no doubts that a weak deal is much worse than no deal, have always thought it a strong possibility, and although there would be disruption and take time to smooth out, it would be worth it.
Since the EU want a deal and so do we, it would be stupid of the EU to not give some concessions at this point.
They are denying us a Canada style agreement so far, but nothing is ruled out as yet.

lemongrove

They haven’t told Barnier ‘not to bother coming’ but suggested it would be a waste of time to come unless there is a different mindset by the EU and compromise from their side is in the air.Which it likely will be.It’s all bluff and double bluff.

GrannyActivist I have no doubts that a weak deal is much worse than no deal, have always thought it a strong possibility, and although there would be disruption and take time to smooth out, it would be worth it.
Since the EU want a deal and so do we, it would be stupid of the EU to not give some concessions at this point.
They are denying us a Canada style agreement so far, but nothing is ruled out as yet.

You are believing Johnson without critical thinking.

There has never been any attempt at a Canadian style agreement. Johnson is lying.

Assuming that everything is a lie is a poor standpoint, and taking critical thinking to crazy lengths.

Even at this late stage in the negotiations a deal could still be struck, it’s what the EU always does, they take it to the wire.

A Canadian style agreement has never been on the table - and makes no sense at all. Canada is on the other side of the world and does NOT share borders with the UK. Nonsensical.

The UK wants to be abble to Trade freely with the EU, without adhering to any of the rules and standards- and want to keep a border open too- where cheap imports from the USA and elsewhere, not adhering to said standards, would leak through. The EU would be barking made to agree. The Agreement signed by Johnson and agreed by Tories in the HoC- was never ever about a Canadian style deal, whatever that means.

lemongrove

Assuming that everything is a lie is a poor standpoint, and taking critical thinking to crazy lengths.

Even at this late stage in the negotiations a deal could still be struck, it’s what the EU always does, they take it to the wire.

I don’t assume everything is a lie, but I note lies when they are told.

How many lorries come back and forth from Canada on a daily basis Lemon?

The EU would be ‘barking’ as you put it biba to not compromise and get a deal with the UK, because they want one every bit as much as we do to allow trade to continue smoothly.
No matter the rhetoric from them, or the posturing from Macron ( which Germany will over ride) they do want a deal.

The thread is now getting away from the OP though, which asked Leavers what they thought about ‘no deal’.....

And responding to replies with our own opinion is totally legitimate.

GrannyA just as Meryl has said, I have politely answered your question and will be off to another thread now?
Hope it continues well ( without a GN bunfight, as HQ call it)

How easy - hey.

And what in particular would you like the EU to compromise on, as a matter of fact. Because just saying it is a bit simple, really.

Fishing! Unless they don't want anything at all which is what no deal will mean!

Ah...but he is going to make an "Australian deal" - i.e. no deal at all. How dare he say such ridiculous things! It is treating the electorate as if they are idiots.

German, Italian and Dutch businesses want a deal to be done. They will put pressure on their governments. The Germans will put pressure on the posturing Macron and a deal will be done at the eleventh hour.
However if this doesn’t transpire, no deal will be better than a weak deal.
I would vote to be an independent nation with friendly international relationships every time.
Coronavirus has made everything so much tougher worldwide but I firmly believe in my country’s ability to thrive.
I am aware that there will be bumps in the road as always with big changes but we will iron things out as we go along and I believe we will prosper.,
I also believe that this government have big ambitions for our country and once we have Covid under control we will begin to see good things happen.

Oh god. It's the German car manufacturers and Italian Prosecco producers about to ride to our rescue, again...

I expect they've just been playing a little game of chicken with us by leaving it so long to make a move...

I rather envy people that have faith in Johnson and his government of yes men. We were watching him on tv yesterday and said how we struggled to comprehend how people could listen to him and feel confident in his ability to govern at a time of crisis. Or any time for that matter.

I think the beleavers just want to hope “everything will be marvellous because we are British” - without any attention to the detail or the way Johnson has already reneged on his election promises. Must be nice to have simple faith.

I absolutely agree with you Laura N. Isn't it sad that on here any positive attitude always gets greeted with a negative patronising put down! Reminds one of the EU ! I thought Boris spoke very well, but of course what would I know in my ignorance and lack of detail amongst such clever know alls!

“Ability to thrive” by lies, breaking treaties, dividing the U.K., lowering food and welfare standards, turning Kent into a lorry park, creating a red tape mountain., sucking up to the likes of Trump....Great.