We need a coup

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Incidentally there has been a long post about the language used by our PM, let's add "spaffing" to that list. After all if we are going to hold politicians to account for their language we should be even handed about it-'spaffing' or 'scum'- which is worse?

As a left winger (and possibly one of the most left on GN) I have asked questions about how the government has dealt with the covid epidemic and received no reply (unsurprisingly really). So I will try again Germany has an excellent track and trace system but they used public services and didnt outsource to private firms- Unlike in the UK, where the test and trace effort was centralised and largely outsourced to private companies, in Germany the effort relied on local public health services reinforced with redeployed civil servants and extra staff and supported by state institutions.
So in reply to the question about what a different government would have done- well there you have it a proper public health related service which a Labour government would have used.
So that's my "rough" response to all the genteel right wingers on here.
Proper public services, support for the poorest and not "spaffing" millions on private profit.

Janpt, my education to become a teacher took 5 years. A degree, a masters and then teacher training.

Additionally, you are not the one to accuse people of having bad manners. You are frequently very rude, 'the word I will use to describe many left wing posters on here is rough', and when this is pointed out to you, you claim to be getting bullied.

I would like to think everyone on here, regardless of education, is able to read with good comprehension. But for those that continually misinterpret, there has to be a reason. So either is that you want to twist what is written to fit your argument OR you are unable to comprehend and follow an argument.

Lemongrove misread and totally misunderstood my post. By all means have your own opinion, that is what this forum is for. But if you tell me I wrote something I didn't, you are wrong. Not me.

And true to form, Janpt is talking AGAIN about the Labour Party. A group that have no power. Why? It's pointless.

MaizieD

^They must be very silent then. Perhaps they are not prepared to put themselves through the abuse dealt out by the left wingers on here.^

I think that they're probably very silent because the government doesn't do much that is admirable or defensible.

Does the Labour Party do anything that is admirable or defensible ? The behaviour of the Deputy Leader shows quite the opposite! The reason for the silence is as quoted above. The abuse of right wing posters on here is totally unacceptable and as it continues just shows where Gransnet stands on this. I will not use the word used by Rayner but the word I will use to describe many left wing posters on here is rough !

"Mainstream", the anti-Corbyn led by ex-Labour MP Ian Austin was run by Public First, the Tory PR firm run by Rachel Wolf: She co-wrote the 2019 Tory Manifesto
Who funded Labours 2019 election loss
morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/playing-to-lose-who-funded-labour-2019-election-loss

Lots of underhand dealings here and the Tories are behind it.

Oh, teachers on GN always have to work it into the conversation? and in this case it’s a ploy, as I have answered
Different posters with the appropriate content.
I rest my case that different views on politics are unwelcome unfortunately, and often resort to personal remarks.There may be some swearing next....using acronyms of course.
I’ll leave the echo chamber to get on with it.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Growstuff The total salary bill for 650 MPs @ £3,000 is £1,950,000 plus the extra that the prime minister and others get. Less that a tenth of the cost of a week of extra school meals. However, the impact on each of those 1.4 million children will be more than ten times the impact of £3K a year on the 650 well-fed MPs

lemongrove

MaizieD

lemongrove

Nobody has trotted out the trite phrase about jealousy!
Feel free to continue thinking so though.?

I have no reason to think that GagaJo is making it up, lemon.

See MaizieD .....in Gaga’s own words....no one used the actual word jealousy. You could have checked a few posts yourself of course to see that it wasn’t true.

I think and continue to think that no other Party would have done any better.Do you think all the governments of all the other countries, say, in the EU have done terribly? They have lost so many to thousands to Covid too.No matter what approach to the virus was taken, and it varied from country to country, it’s all been much the same and continues that way.
With any government they will get some things wrong,
And so very easy to be a constant armchair critic.....this year the government have had Covid to deal with and Brexit to negotiate.Any one of these things would have been a really difficult task for any political Party.
So....we shall have to agree to disagree.

You don't get to use Brexit as an excuse, its been self inflicted, sorry.

Do you think all the governments of all the other countries, say, in the EU have done terribly? They have lost so many to thousands to Covid too.

Yep, true. Number of deaths per thousand in the UK is 662. In France its 536. In the Netherlands 412 and in Italy 620. Spain, admittedly, stands at 743, so they are doing worse. Its not a competition, but in light of those statistics, do I think our government has mucked something up? Yes, I do. (Scotland by the way, 494)

With any government they will get some things wrong. Absolutely. But have they admitted that? Not that I'm aware of. Until recently Johnson was telling us it would all be over by Christmas. They lie and treat us like idiots. Today Matt Hancock told BBC Breakfast that Johnson has been communicating with Marcus Rashford, who then immediately said that wasn't true.

Then a government apologist says something dismissive and snide like "Feel free to continue thinking so though".

We get angry Lemon, we get angry.

I think we are deluding ourselves if we think this is a democracy any more. We are living in a dictatorship, they are chipping away at our human rights every day. Lockdowns do not work, neither does mask wearing in my opinion. This government was presented with the Barrington declaration consisting of eminent doctors and scientists who gave their views on this pandemic, did they listen? NO, preferring to take advice from Whitty and co. They have put the fear of god into people by careful psychological brainwashing. Anyone with an ounce of sense can see that the figures of cases are grossly massaged and inflated with false positives. It’s as if they are lying to us and presenting the truth too which is glaringly obvious if we all looked at it properly, it’s as if in years to come they will say well the evidence was there you didn’t bother to look it’s your own fault. This is depopulation under the guise of climate control etc as a smoke screen. Many people have died from not getting treatment when needed and those in care homes, This could be stopped altogether if enough people took a stand.

Elegran

Ilovecheese I agree, the provision of school meals through a short holiday period, in these very odd circumstances, should not be a partisan question. I would have thought more highly of Parliament if they had decided to forgo the £3,000 rise for the moment and put the money toward the cost of the meals. It probably wouldn't come near to completely paying for them (anyone got any figures for how much extra they would have put onto the existing school meal bill?), but it would have been a welcome gesture.

About 1.4 million children in England are eligible for FSM. Multiply that by £15 a week = £21 million.

In reality, at least twice that number will be living in very low income families, but under the current regulations it's almost impossible for any child where one person is in work (even if it's minimum wage or reduced hours) to be eligible.

I don't think any other party could possibly have prioritised handing out lucrative contracts to their cronies without competitive tendering,whilst starving local authorities and public health departments of thew funds they needed to address the pandemic effectively..

MaizieD

lemongrove

Nobody has trotted out the trite phrase about jealousy!
Feel free to continue thinking so though.?

I have no reason to think that GagaJo is making it up, lemon.

See MaizieD .....in Gaga’s own words....no one used the actual word jealousy. You could have checked a few posts yourself of course to see that it wasn’t true.

I think and continue to think that no other Party would have done any better.Do you think all the governments of all the other countries, say, in the EU have done terribly? They have lost so many to thousands to Covid too.No matter what approach to the virus was taken, and it varied from country to country, it’s all been much the same and continues that way.
With any government they will get some things wrong,
And so very easy to be a constant armchair critic.....this year the government have had Covid to deal with and Brexit to negotiate.Any one of these things would have been a really difficult task for any political Party.
So....we shall have to agree to disagree.

MaizieD

^'You're just jealous because Labour didn't win.' WTF?^

It's their comfort blanket, GagaJo. Same as the Leave voters (usually the same people) telling us 'we won, get over it'. It's easier to trot out these trite phrases designed to belittle and deflect, than to discuss anything.

It is ONLY the right wing members that keep referencing Labour.

And no, no one used the actual word jealousy, (instead insert synonym 'frustrated') but it is the essence of what you are implying, while totally ignoring the elephant in the room of the theft of tax payers money that COULD have been used to save lives and instead has been stolen.

If you think distress at so many needless deaths is 'frustration' at being out of power you REALLY need a reality check.

lemongrove Are you happy then with the amount this government has poured into the pockets of private companies for a "Test and Trace" system which is failing in many ways? Can you explain why the money was paid to those people and not used to improve public health systems already in place? What about this comment?^Maggie Rae, president of the Faculty of Public Health, told The BMJ, Other countries across the world are managing a more effective system on less tests than we are doing, so we need to build a much more intelligent and agile testing strategy.” She said that the £10bn being spent on NHS Test and Trace would be better spent on a more localised system, like that in Germany.

lemongrove

Nobody has trotted out the trite phrase about jealousy!
Feel free to continue thinking so though.?

I have no reason to think that GagaJo is making it up, lemon.

You are right Gagajo

I did not vote for the Labour Party or the Conservative Party, although I was aware that it would be one or other of them who were most likely to form a government, but what I hoped for, and had every right to expect, was that whoever won, under our hopelessly undemocratic FPTP electoral system, would be competent.

What we have ended up with is, without any doubt, by far the most incompetent administration in British history.

All the more tragic at a time when, because of the double disaster of the pandemic, and the falloout from the fraudulent brexit referendum, we need competence more than ever.

Nobody has trotted out the trite phrase about jealousy!
Feel free to continue thinking so though.?

'You're just jealous because Labour didn't win.' WTF?

It's their comfort blanket, GagaJo. Same as the Leave voters (usually the same people) telling us 'we won, get over it'. It's easier to trot out these trite phrases designed to belittle and deflect, than to discuss anything.

Nobody, least of all me, has said anything of the sort GagaIt’s nothing to do with ‘jealousy’ it’s simply because their Party has been kicking around in the doldrums....when a political Party has had no power for so very many years, it’s unsurprising that people who support them feel frustrated.
On Covid, I doubt any other Party could have done any better, you have only to look around Europe and see that whatever any government of any country did this year has been pretty futile as far as controlling numbers, they’re all on the rise again.

Lemongrove, I think you'll find the 'Labour GN members have become more frustrated and upset, therefore more inclined to lash out verbally' NOT because Labour lost. Once the election was over, as far as I am concerned, political discussion was done. No point rehashing the past.

What individuals object to now, is the horrific incompetent mess that is being made of the management of a deadly pandemic. The death of tens of thousands of British people is upper most in our concerns. That this is due to crisis mismanagement and financial theft, given that the money that has been given to friends/associates of CP members has directly led to additional unnecessary infections and deaths is like something out of a horror movie. We watch this sort of thing play out in countries described in the MSM as less civilised (government officials and friends / family / associates siphoning off tax payer money) and we look on in shock and disbelief, while comforting ourselves it could never happen in the UK. And now it is. In the middle of the biggest emergency any of us have faced in our lifetime.

Instead of DOING something about it, we sit back and bicker about 'You're just jealous because Labour didn't win.' WTF?

(apologies for poor grammar and sentence structure!)

Ilovecheese I agree, the provision of school meals through a short holiday period, in these very odd circumstances, should not be a partisan question. I would have thought more highly of Parliament if they had decided to forgo the £3,000 rise for the moment and put the money toward the cost of the meals. It probably wouldn't come near to completely paying for them (anyone got any figures for how much extra they would have put onto the existing school meal bill?), but it would have been a welcome gesture.

They must be very silent then. Perhaps they are not prepared to put themselves through the abuse dealt out by the left wingers on here.

I think that they're probably very silent because the government doesn't do much that is admirable or defensible.