How did we ever get to have such an incompetent government?

Whitewavemark2

We are the first in Europe to hit over 50000 deaths. Shades of Trump America.

Nonsense, (it’s nothing like Trump’s America) . In Europe .....
Looking at fact check it makes it clear that comparing countries and their ways of documenting Covid deaths isn’t
A good idea, because the counting of deaths and what goes on the death certificates are all very different.

Surely a more accurate comparison with European (or any other) Countries would be percentage of deaths per population ?

Any unnecessary death is one to many.

Using WHO figures:

UK deaths per million, 733

US deaths per million, 715

In Europe, discounting microstates like Andorra, only Belgium (1,170) and Spain (850) have higher numbers than the UK.

I agree with Lemon that different countries count deaths differently, but we did remove several thousand from our count a few months ago so we are probably undercounting.

Whatever the internal problems for the Johnson administration at this time, I believe we are at a crucial time in this Covid crisis when matters could turn one of two ways for the government. Should a vaccine become available by Christmas and the New Year the outlook for the whole population would look much brighter and extending the furlough scheme until March could look like a masterstroke?

Very many jobs would have been preserved by the furlough of employees who could return quickly and safely to their jobs as the spring approaches. Such things as holidays could be booked with confidence and with shops, pubs and restaurants open and serving as normal, life could once again be taken up as before the crisis. In that, and with the economy bouncing back, without a doubt this government would be left basking in the glory and good feeling of it all.

Of course, there are many "if'" circumstances to the above where the above "factors" could go very wrong, but there is now hope and a glimmer of light being brought into this very dark winter.

I'm hoping any holiday travel would be on the condition of proven vaccination.

Hetty58

I'm hoping any holiday travel would be on the condition of proven vaccination.

In that case, you're going to be disappointed. Vaccination has not been established to stop transmission and is unlikely to be available to the general public for many months.

One of my fears is that people understand so little about the Pfizer vaccination that they will see it as a "Get out of jail free" card. It really isn't!

I understand that the vaccine has to be stored at -70 degrees. I can't see many surgeries having that sort of facility.

As the tory crony in charge of the vaccine has no clinical, or any other relevant, experience, and, going by the incompetence of other tory crony led initiatives, I can see massive problems with transportation (compounded by the Brexit effect if it comes from Europe), storage and distribution.

I'm not getting excited about it at all...

How many haulage trucks would be able to transport at minus 70C Degrees? Even if there were no massive delays at ports in January?

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Message deleted by Gransnet as it repeats a post we've since deleted. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I've got bad news for you Kamiso. The allegation that Keir Starmer was responsible for the decision not to prosecute Jimmy Savile is completely false.

The CPS is not a "top down" body in which all decisions are made by the Director of Public Prosecutions. It works in a devolved way, whereby individual cases are considered by a reviewing lawyer from a regional team. Each of these teams is headed by their own crown prosecutor with responsibility for prosecuting cases locally.

More importantly, CPS procedures make clear that the involvement of the DPP is only required in "a limited number of cases", known as "consent" cases and the Savile accusations would not have been considered a consent case.

Therefore there is absolutely no reason to believe Keir Starmer would have had any involvement in decisions on the case. And if he had interfered in the Savile matter, he would have been acting contrary to the Code for Crown Prosecutors and other CPS guidance.

It is a matter of public record that neither the police nor the CPS covered themselves in glory over the way they handled the Savile matter but Keir Starmer was not personally to blame for this.

Kamiso - if, of course, you have evidence to the contrary proving beyond doubt that Keir Starmer actively intervened in the Savile matter and ruled against prosecution then please share it with us.

I would expect this evidence to come from an independent source, not an unnamed right-wing source whom you may have relied on to support your views.

There is so little mud to sling at Starmer ( unlike their own dear leader and his chums) some people will search for any barrel to scrape.

Yes it's always scraping the barrel when the Saville issue is brought up.

One by one the con merchants who created the carnage that will come about in January are walking away with their pockets lined with our money.

They will never suffer the consequences and will never be held up to account.

So no deal with the USA or EU on the cards, and now Canada has said that the UK lacks the initiative to get a deal with them by January.

We are in the most appalling crises, with stuff coming at us on every front and what does Johnson do?

Indulges in an intense amount of in fighting.

Have we ever had such a disgraceful Prime Minister?

Only Trump can match him.

Kamiso suggests we stop believing the nonsense printed in the Guardian then goes on to repeat total nonsense about the lack of prosecution of Saville being down to Starmer. Absolute c* as other posters have set out.

Whitewavemark2

So no deal with the USA or EU on the cards, and now Canada has said that the UK lacks the initiative to get a deal with them by January.

So you are telling me that we have been told, again and again lately, that we should aim for a Canada style Deal ... which does not exist? Really!

I feel that the Kamiso post was placed to deliberately "wind everyone up" and that seems to have worked with several on the forum. Best if he or she is ignored and just carry on with the reasonable debate.

The problems for Starmer within his party did undoubtedly grow substantially yesterday but that I believe would be better discussed on the Starmer/Labour Party thread in this section of the forum.

Sorry can’t agree, it was a pretty shocking comment and has rightly been deleted

Lucca

Sorry can’t agree, it was a pretty shocking comment and has rightly been deleted

Well, if it has been deleted, that's the end on the matter. I was not aware that it had, so, on with business as usual. ?.

Following a night shift I am off to bed anyway.

Jaberwok I'm pleased you agree that Remainers had the moral high ground. However we are now in the situation you wanted and voted for. It seems that nothing is as easily resolved as we were promised, that in fact many of the warnings that were given will become realities. We have the situation we are in and although Covid may have made things more dificult it cannot be blamed for all of the shit this government has landed us in. As for the Home Secretary and her dodgy dealings, does anyone really have confidence in her?

it's surprising how often someone can throw a 'bone' into any thread and posters run to the bone forgetting the thread!!

Two startling sentences in the Sunday Times:

‘The government has awarded £1.5bn of taxpayers’ money to companies linked to the Conservative Party during the coronavirus pandemic. None of the firms were prominent government suppliers before this year.’

The smell around the way PPE contracts were awarded is rather fishy.

Excellent news then that the Good Law Project, and a cross-party group of MPs, are allowed to go to court to establish whether the Government broke the rules.

twitter.com/UnlockDemocracy/status/1327299632532164609