How confident are you in a good deal for the UK?

Here you go:

1990 - source: NY Times
“About 12,000 angry farmers marched on Thursday through the town of Nevers in central France, where Finance Minister Pierre Beregovoy is Mayor. The farmers clashed with 2,000 riot police officers, pelting them with rocks, bottles, metal bolts and dung.

French farmers have also kept up their attacks on trucks carrying imported cattle, lambs and meat. British, Dutch and German truckers say they feel terrified when they drive into France, where the farmers have assembled roadblocks of hay, nails and burning tires.

French farmers set fire to one truckload of British sheep, killing 219 of them. They poisoned 94 sheep on one truck, slit the throats of sheep on another and doused animals on a third truck with insecticide to prevent their meat from being sold.

British officials have angrily criticized the French Government for not doing more to stop such tactics.”

The UK joined the EU on 1 January 1973 along with Denmark and the ROI.

(Wikipedia)

French are always volatile.
No wonder Macron desperately trying to keep his countrymen on side.

This was 30 years ago. I’d hardly use that as an example of what an entire group of people will do, Our fishermen are hardly the best conservationists in the world. 90% of all the plastic in the ocean is from the fishing industry which has decimated marine life. Meanwhile, sheep have their throats cut in their thousands every day of the week in the U.K.,

I’m not very confident TBH, but I’m more concerned for young people. OH and I will deal with whatever happens somehow, we’ll mostly be alright. I worry about medical supplies though. I’m glad I’m not just starting my career, I worked with a number of European clients and travelled extensively within the EU.

Meanwhile, sheep have their throats cut in their thousands every day of the week in the U.K. sure vegansrock but they’re not usually burnt alive nor doused with insecticides and petrol.

Tempers got frayed. The hauliers (not just British) were scared.

The Cod Wars with gunboats was a tense stand-off.

Negotiations are very important if we don’t want a repetition. As MaizieD said the French will retaliate.

Greenpeace says ‘ghost gear’ from fishing plastic was particularly prevalent from illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing, Mostly (86%) in the Pacific.

What’s the point of defending the fishing industry? More people work in retail and are loosing their jobs, and they don’t get all this attention. Maybe it’s because most of them are women. It’s not as if the fish caught are sold in the U.K., most is exported to the EU.

Because they are our territorial waters. They don't belong to the French or the Spanish or any of the EU countries, they belong to the UK.

I am afraid, the reality of being an island (hey Raab!?!) - may become even more real than ever. Being an island surrounded by angry people you have betrayed, played and taken for a ride- is going to be very difficult. Sad reality.

I expect boycotts both ways, and worse.

I suppose vegansrock because it represents our sovereignty. Sorry MaizieD!

Everyone feels desperately sorry for workers in the retail section but their plight isn’t part of on going EU negotiations.

C19 has accelerated digital shopping. It would have happened anyway but more slowly I suppose.

Fishing however is something that the UK can (and will) build up after 1 January 2021.

I really don't get this fuss over fishing. Fishing contributes only a tiny percentage to Britain's GDP. Mining and steel producing communities that contributed much more to the economy just had to suck it up when governments snatched their livelihoods from them. Why are fishing communities so special?

Boris & Ursula vdL haven’t broken the deadlock. Talks again tomorrow.

Maybe No Deal really is coming?

There is no such thing as a hard or soft Brexit. These were labels invented after the referendum. We are either in the EU or we are out of the EU.

We didn't hear about a hard or soft Brexit before the referendum. Some talk more favourably about their soft Brexit or diluted Brexit because it would not be Brexit. We voted for a proper, true, genuine, real Brexit.

Maybe it’s time to get off that dead horse you’re flogging Boris and walk away?

4 years of this and we’re down to the last 4 days.
Unbelievable.

All I ask is that Boris and Frost stick to the “no deal is better than a bad deal” promise.

To me that sums up the situation in a nutshell.

It's got to remain at a no deal. Let the WTO sort it.

Urmstongran

The UK joined the EU on 1 January 1973 along with Denmark and the ROI.

(Wikipedia)

French are always volatile.
No wonder Macron desperately trying to keep his countrymen on side.

Exactly! Do you think Boris sitting on him tonight may have resolved the situation?

I thought a soft brexit was one in which we would still be in the single market. Which, I believe (please correct me if I’m wrong) those persuading people to vote leave told people we would still be in if we voted leave. But I could be wrong....

We can’t “build up our fishing industry” without depleting the seas and driving more marine life to extinction. We don’t own fish - they are wild creatures and can swim from one territory to another. A lot of the fish eaten in the U.K. is farmed in horrible industrial fish farms. We should be cutting down on fishing not increasing it to protect marine life if we want a living planet.

The leavers on this thread are showing the usual lack of understanding.

No deal is not a a basis from which to trade! WTO is not a basis from which to trade!

We will still need to negotiate a trade deal with the EU.

No deal on the 1 January simply means chaos for weeks and weeks because we have such an inept, incompetent lying bastards for a government.

We will have to end up with a deal no matter what is being said.

That is the reality. That is what should have happened and hopefully might still happen.

Now the arch negotiator Johnson has taken over I expect miracles ( not holding my breath), Perhaps he could ask Ursula for some negotiating lessons?

I think the other issue is that characteristically Johnson has over promised.

We were members of the union for decades and yet still do not appear to understand the rules.

As a third country we can never negotiate away any of the single market rules like level playing field etc. And yet Johnson and fellow unrealists continued to talk as if the U.K. could do just that.

It was never going to happen, as it would undermine the base on which the EU is built.

We may be able to fiddle around with fishing rights but we are in a much weaker position now than we were in when part of the Union, we could/should have fought harder as a member. We never did though as fishing was never seen as a major part of the economy and in any case the quotas we got were immediately sold back to fishermen residing in other parts of the EU. Money seemed more important to the fisher families than fishing rights.

“Not only can Britain leave the European Union and have access to the single market, we’d actually get a better deal”. That was The Telegraph headline Vote Leave endorsed by one BJohnson. That’s what we were promised and what people voted for.. It was a lie then and is a lie now.

As a sovereign nation we could choose to negotiate a trade deal with the EU which trades along “single market” rules.

At a stroke it would deal with the NI issue and open up the way to a trade deal with USA

At a stoke it would ensure continuity of vital medicines including the covid vaccine.

At a stroke it would ensure vital JIT trade

At a stroke it would save thousands of jobs

At a stroke it would prevent another severe hit to our economy.

Almost 100% of the electorate, whether voting leave or remain, thought that was what they voted for.

It won’t happen because about 80 people plus a few of their followers hold the government hostage.

We are provably better no deal.than a bad deal, eating our own produce more. We cannot let our fishermen down, their job is one that none of the population would or could do with little reward. I am totally against animals bring slaughtered miles away, theircwell bring is paramount. I still remember French burning Sheep lorries, they don't give an inch, it's their way or no way. so leave them to it. We need our farmers and fishermen.

But farmers and fishermen( are there any women?) won’t be helped by a no deal. It will ruin many of them. Johnson knows that he can’t deliver what he promised,

It is astounding how the 80 + have absolutely taken hostage of the narrative.

We take about a bad deal/no deal dichotomy but that was never on offer in the referendum.

There isn’t a leaver in the country that voted for what is confronting us now, and yet they have allowed themselves as well as many remainers to accept this minority’s narrative.