New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

Jaberwok

No one is gloating on here. Just quiet satisfaction with a job finally achieved.

Maybe you need to do a reread of the last few pages.

I thought that people had confused the time due to fireworks being let off at 11pm

Never even thought it was about leaving the EU

I don't believe that many people are as concerned with it. It's only on GN that I see the few Remainers still discussing it

On my FB I have quite a few friends who were horrified at the referendum result and over the last 3 or 4 years have mentioned how disappointed they are. How they've applied for Irish passports etc etc. Not in my name and they'll always be European.

But now it's gone quiet. I assume they've given up talking about it.

We will adapt.

The younger generation will cope.

Well, it's done and we have to live with it, but none of my Remain voting friends, if the topic comes up, have a good word to say about it They think it's the stupidist thing the UK has ever done in our lifetime.

We're just waiting until it bites...

I think the point is that now the mandate of the referendum has been discharged and what happens next does not have to reflect the wishes of the Brexit voters. The future is in different hands.
I do not think that there will be any swift return to full membership, but economic and security imperatives will gradually move the UK back towards the single market and customs union and closer co-operation in defence, intelligence etc.

Mamie

I think the point is that now the mandate of the referendum has been discharged and what happens next does not have to reflect the wishes of the Brexit voters. The future is in different hands.
I do not think that there will be any swift return to full membership, but economic and security imperatives will gradually move the UK back towards the single market and customs union and closer co-operation in defence, intelligence etc.

Agree

The few people I know who voted leave are now all thoroughly ashamed of themselves for having been so foolish. In my experience the gloating leavers on Gransnet are not typical.

You would think that at the very least the Tories knew what they voted for last Wednesday.

Today Branden Lewes announced that there is no Irish Sea border.

Doh!!

Sky News reporter, speaking from the harbour at Brixham in Devon: "Pretty much all the fishermen I have spoken to today are disappointed."

Sunlit uplands www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/01/residents-furious-brexit-lorry-park-kent-village

Mamie

I think the point is that now the mandate of the referendum has been discharged and what happens next does not have to reflect the wishes of the Brexit voters. The future is in different hands.
I do not think that there will be any swift return to full membership, but economic and security imperatives will gradually move the UK back towards the single market and customs union and closer co-operation in defence, intelligence etc.

The EU probably would not consider full membership even if we asked, what should not be ruled out is EEA membership, a sort of half way house that would simplify the relationship.
That depends on wether Brexit is seen as a success in 4 yrs time, the other uncertainty is wether the Labour Party can get its act together.

Had a WhatsApp from Italian friend (very much a conservative type ) saying she still can’t understand why we are leaving, why we want to isolate ourselves and quoting Manzoni something along the lines of it being future generations who will pay the price.

"I voted for Brexit – but not for this"

Sean O’Grady thought that Leave could lead to a better deal for Britain. But, he writes, what we’ve ended up with instead is the worst of all worlds

www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/voices/brexit-vote-leave-trade-deal-b1780862.html

83% of the population think Johnson has made a real mess of the Deal- and 73% of Brexiters are satisfied with it- what an indictement!

and 73% of Brexiters are NOT satisfied with it.

Bodach

"Then you don’t know him and obviously don’t know what a thoroughly decent person he is."
You are absolutely correct, MayBee70: I don't know him, and I fully acknowledge that the milk of human kindness may well ooze from every pore of his all-too-often blue-painted (with yellow stars) epidermis. The fact remains that spending day after day in Parliament Square, clad in fancy dress and shouting inanities at outside broadcasters, does not strike me as being the preferred lifestyle of a well-balanced individual. It smacks of a narcissist who relishes being in the spotlight, and who will go to ridiculous lengths to stay there.

Spot on! ??

Doesn’t he have a job?

biba70

83% of the population think Johnson has made a real mess of the Deal- and 73% of Brexiters are satisfied with it- what an indictement!

Suckers, they believed they could have their cake and eat it, you never can. I might be gloating but we have lost so much and gained nothing.

I may not be a statistician, David0205 but even I can see those percentages are awry.
(Nice turn of phrase btw.)

Which is why biba corrected her post.
and 73% of Brexiters are NOT satisfied with it.

I did take account of the correction, the only gain I can see is avoiding the EU banking rules which will suit the dodgy money in the city.

Ok, it's just that you quoted the first set which biba then corrected.

This is a strange thing.

The original tweet was from Captain Kirk in October (yes, definitely him, has blue tick verification)

William Shatner @WilliamShatner
UK folks; looks like your government is wanting to force vendors outside of your country to collect VAT on orders being shipped to the UK staring 1 Jan. I had my staff investigate costs & it’s over £1000/yr just to file these forms via a service. That’s too much for a small store

Confirmed in this more up to date thread (i.e yesterday) that this is absolutely true.

Edwin Hayward
@uk_domain_names

This is 100% real, not a wind-up

Here are the new post-Brexit VAT rules. Basically, overseas firms are forced to register with HMRC, collect VAT then remit it to HMRC if they want to sell to UK customers.

Apparently, until now, VAT has been paid by the importer, not by the non UK supplier. This new ruling, as can be seen from the October tweet, applies world wide.
This probably means that very many smaller enterprises aren't going to deal with UK customers any more as it's not worth their while. Bizarre, isn't it? Do you think it's an attempt to make us all buy British...?

On the other hand, our SMEs are going to find it more expensive to deal with EU customers because of the increased paperwork and, if dealing in plant or animal based commodities, will need Phytosanitary clearance, which takes time.

This came up on my time line this morning (a repeat of an old tweet)

Tom Peck@tompeck
·
Dec 4, 2020
Just encountered this on website of a brilliant, industry leading, Newcastle-based small business (a plant nursery).

It's not merely that it's so heartbreaking, and so unimaginably stupid. It's that Tories did it.

^Actual Tories, smashed up small businesses, for nothing.
Show this thread^

The 'this' he refers to was a notice on the firm's website saying they could no longer supply EU customers in the EU & NI because of the new post Brexit plant health regulations. (I'd post a copy of the notice but it would get mixed up with the first part of this post.)

So, no trade in or out of the UK for the small and medium size businesses that are our life blood?

Well done Leavers...

Callistemon

Ok, it's just that you quoted the first set which biba then corrected.

When you press quote you can't choose which bits of the post you want to quote. David had no choice but to quote the wrong figures... It was pretty obvious that, biba having made her correction, he was referencing the correct percentages...

Really?

83% of the population think Johnson has made a real mess of the Deal- and 73% of Brexiters are satisfied with it- what an indictement!
and 73% of Brexiters are NOT satisfied with it.

^ ^ helps.
David had no choice but to quote the wrong figures
Yes he did
Better than perpetuating a mistake which someone immediately corrected.

But of course, I knew you'd argue
???

I read that and have been sitting on it because I find it so difficult to believe.

But really like everything else, of course it is true if the Tories have anything to do with it.

I've said it all along. The reason Boris has made a hash of this is because he was a Remainer at heart and the only way to get him where is is now at number 10 was to " go with the flow ", in other words the majority who voted for Brexit.
He would never have been PM if he'd voted Remain.