New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

growstuff
so tell us why they weren't included
I think you know the reason. You mentioned it a few days back.

That made me laugh Ellianne!!

No it’s not Theresa May’s capitulation deal. David Frost said negotiations were so hard because the EU thought May’s deal (with a tweak here and there) would cut the mustard. Not so. Also he said that Boris’ huge majority (not May appealing for consensus - remember those farcical indicative votes?) and the certainty that this time we COULD walk away gave his team more leverage.

Actually just read this, in an article by David Gauke (Remainer - remember the so called ‘Gaukward Squad’?) in the Guardian:

“In reaching a deal, the prime minister can claim a success. His political position is strengthened. But the new relationship with the EU is one he has created by dismantling the status quo of EU membership, obstructing a softer, better Brexit in the form of Theresa May’s deal and now agreeing to this new deal.”

Nb. ‘softer & better’ in the view of someone who didn’t want to leave the EU.

Boris’ deal isn’t Theresa May’s.
No wonder Remain voters wished we’d signed up for hers last summer.

Urms you’re on fire.

Urmstongran

Actually just read this, in an article by David Gauke (Remainer - remember the so called ‘Gaukward Squad’?) in the Guardian:

“In reaching a deal, the prime minister can claim a success. His political position is strengthened. But the new relationship with the EU is one he has created by dismantling the status quo of EU membership, obstructing a softer, better Brexit in the form of Theresa May’s deal and now agreeing to this new deal.”

Nb. ‘softer & better’ in the view of someone who didn’t want to leave the EU.

Boris’ deal isn’t Theresa May’s.
No wonder Remain voters wished we’d signed up for hers last summer.

Sorry, but I honestly don't think you understand what Gauke means.

petra

growstuff
so tell us why they weren't included
I think you know the reason. You mentioned it a few days back.

What was that? I don't remember giving any reason. I certainly wouldn't mention what I really think on here.

So what do YOU think has been achieved? Go on! It can't be that difficult.

Urmstongran

In the Guardian today:

“France’s Le Monde saw the deal as a political victory for Johnson, who it described as an “unsinkable political machine”, if not the unqualified triumph for Britain that he claimed to have pulled off.

“His hair is more chaotic than ever, he looks wild at every appearance and seems permanently overwhelmed by events,” the paper said. “But by pulling off a trade deal with the European Union on December 24th, the British prime minister has once again shown the usefulness of pretending to be a madman.”

Thanks Urmstrongran, made my evening.??

I sense some disappointment amongst EU fans on GN that we now have a deal in place? that the Armageddon they were predicting won’t now happen.
With a deal and a vaccine on the horizon for Covid, perhaps we can look forward to better times.?

The world has gone mad! At least certain sections of the British population seem to have.

JP Morgan reckons it's a good deal - for the EU!

From the same article Urmstongran quoted:

"But like many others, he questioned the need for Brexit to have happened at all, pointing out how even the UK prime minister, Boris Johnson, as he announced the deal, underlined enduring cultural, emotional and other attachments between the continent and Britain.

“If that’s the case, dear Bojo, wouldn’t it have been better to avoid Brexit and stay part of the family?” he asked."

And another ...

“The EU will be freer to take the steps it needs to take in order to assert itself against the USA and China – because it is running out of time to do so. Great Britain, on the other hand, might need Brexit to realise how small the bit part it will play on the world stage will really be.”

Yawn

The ship has sailed, get on board and help steer the course or keep on drilling holes in the underside until you sink it.

CBA

Loved this from Richard Littlejohn.

Meanwhile, the ferocious federasts at The Guardian and The Independent are apoplectic in their condemnation, despite the fact that the agreement has been hailed by the EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. They have only succeeded in exposing their desperation and the paucity of their argument.

Having lost all the big battles, opponents of the deal are now reduced to clutching at straws, carping about the status of Scottish-grown sprouting potatoes and something called Erasmus, which sounds like a brand of shaving foam.
Turns out Erasmus is a European student exchange programme, which is being replaced by a new scheme, named after British Enigma genius Alan Turing, and will give students the chance to attend the best overseas universities not just in Europe but anywhere in the world.

So no great hardship there, then.

Of course we’re relieved there’s a deal. No deal would have put my son at risk from disruption to medication supply. Why the fuck would I want that?

I thought May’s deal was terrible and Johnson’s is worse. The loss of Erasmus is frustrating and unnecessary. I fear for the Union. I suspect many of us will before poorer. I fear the rise in nationalism. However, I also suspect eventually we will form closer ties with Europe. The young did not want Brexit.

In the meantime at least I had the sense to marry someone born on the island of Ireland & so my children and grandchildren will be able to retain freedom of movement. I just wish everyone who wanted that could still have that.

Laura I know this is a really difficult concept but people hold different views to you and arent going to change them at your bequest.

Actually yes GG and Lemon,
A nice glass of Baileys and an hour of Victoria Wood can only add to this feeling of contentment. Yawn and CBA.

The absolute disdain and lack of understanding of erasmus, I mean who would want to show children different cultures and countries after all. Richard littlejohn is a foul man.

I too am doing my best Nezumi my father is German so am currently trying to negotiate the citizenship issue.

The young did not want Brexit

You sure about that Nezumi? You’ve seen clips on tv I’m sure with many young people who voted Leave. I did.

And I know of a fair few myself.
We must just move in different circles is all.
Fair enough, that’s anecdotal.

Doesn’t change the outcome though.
We Are Out

Moving forward now.
??

Yes. We’ll move forward. You own it now. Good luck.

70% of 18-24 year olds voted to stay. No they’re not all one homogenous group, but they are keener on staying than their grandparents. If you need reminding 40% of over 65s voted remain.

So I am fairly confident that in years to come we will have closer relationship with Europe with a less divisive narrative. There will be enough people who (like my children and grandchildren) can retain freedom of movement via parental heritage that their friends will also see the value of that. I’m very positive about the future. Like Rees Mogg I just think good things are a few decades away. I envisage a very different future than him though.

Most 18 - 24y olds didn’t turn out to vote.

Urmstongran

Most 18 - 24y olds didn’t turn out to vote.

Not true.

The turnout for 18-24 year olds was about 65%. Not the low erroneous figure initially reported. There has been a lot written about that.

Seems the younger generation’s overwhelming preference for staying in the EU didn’t translate into a result, because a majority of them simply didn’t turn out to vote. Because of the secret ballot, we do not actually know how many did or didn’t. But a YouGov poll (tweeted by Sky data) estimates that only 36% of 18- to 24-year-olds cast their vote in the referendum.

And it gets worse. Turnout is measured as a proportion of “voting eligible” individuals – which means people who are on the electoral register. But available registration data indicates that almost 20% of the youngest age group had not even bothered to register in the first place. Which means voter apathy among young people is even worse than the polling data would have us believe.

That yougov estimate has been repeatedly rejected.